Two mums / advice needed from dads.

[Ash]

In fact the email to the mediator could even be a bit more - maybe something like

"Following my MIAM appointment with you on x date, it was intended that mediation would progress. However circumstances have changed and I now need to apply to court urgently. I would be grateful if you could send me the mediation sign off, by email, as soon as possible please."

 

[Ash]

Just to help you on your way, have just uploaded some new samples of wording for the C100 form (5b wording) in the resources section - linked below. It'll give you an idea of the kind of format. These are very standard examples - everyone's situation will vary and you can argue different angles accordingly.

You basically set out what's what. What you're applying for, who it's about, a brief background, what the circumstances are. What you think is best for the children and why. A very short bit addressing what the other parent's view might be (this is basically a polite way of putting all the obstrutions they're creating) and why you don't agree with that view (because you're being child focused). A little bit more background of parenting possibly. And ending with asking for an interim order and asking the court to make a child arrangements order "as follows" with the schedule you want. At this stage the schedule doesn't have to be too detailed, but does need to be clear on the amount of time and whether it is "lives with both" or not.

You'll notice the request for the order is at both the beginning and end of the piece. The theory being (as with essay writing) that the first and last paragraphs should say it in a nutshell in case people skim the rest!

Sample wording for C100 application

Attached are two versions of sample wording for section 5b of the C100 form. The sample wording assumes it's for a Child Arrangements Application. One version is more of a straightforward application. The other version is more for if...

www.dadswithkids.co.uk

 

[Clocky123]

Hi @Ash

If I email that to the mediator will she tell w though ? She’s going this week she told me ….

I came home this weekend and told my parents and family everything, I can’t tell you how much better I feel like a massive weight has been lifted and they are so supportive. The pit of anxiety of spending the last 15 years with her and the abuse is starting to lift .

Ready for the battle

 

[Clocky123]

Also @Ash

Have you listened to this

‎Narcissists in divorce – the lure, the loss and the law.: Conversations with barrister Nicholas Wilkinson - Part 3 on Apple Podcasts

‎Show Narcissists in divorce – the lure, the loss and the law., Ep Conversations with barrister Nicholas Wilkinson - Part 3 - 5 Jul 2022

podcasts.apple.com

It’s in 3 parts listened on way home yesterday. Worth a listen .

 

[Ash]

Hi @Ash

If I email that to the mediator will she tell w though ? She’s going this week she told me ….

I came home this weekend and told my parents and family everything, I can’t tell you how much better I feel like a massive weight has been lifted and they are so supportive. The pit of anxiety of spending the last 15 years with her and the abuse is starting to lift .

Ready for the battle

In a way, does it matter if she tells her? I am not sure that is within her remit to be honest if the original party has given confidential info - but of course she may contact her to say her appointment is cancelled. Or she might not - is this appointment for W on her own? Her own MIAM before mediation starts? Or is it supposed to be the first mediation session with both of you? If it's the one for W on her own the mediator may say nothing, let it go ahead and then tell her you've asked to be signed off.

But when I say - does it matter, I mean - if you put an application in on Monday morning for a 24 hour hearing, she is going to get notified there's a hearing within a few days anyway. And for all she will react - there is nothing like a prohibited steps order to make her think it could get worse and she might actually behave and be reasonable for a bit.

But I take your point. But the mediator might not be happy if W gets a court hearing date and you haven't told the mediator you're applying to court.

I think I'd just take the bull by the horns, email the mediator saying you want signing off asap, you don't want to progress with mediation "at this time" as you're putting an urgent application in on Monday. If you put it in writing I think she has to do it - it's a bit different to a verbal situation. You're acting as an independent parent at this point.

I'm guessing this mediator - hearing your situation (which is slightly different to the usual Mum/Dad separating situation) has probably really wanted to get her teeth into this one and try and solve it!

I seem to remember you have to sign something at the MIAM to say you're happy to go ahead with mediation. The first time I tried to get signed off for an urgent application the mediator almost tried to trick me into signing it! She really didn't want to sign me off - fair enough - it was her job to try and get mediation going. I queried whether signing this committed me to going ahead with mediation and she said no it's just to say we've discussed matters. When I got home and read it I really didn't trust it! So I emailed her and said just to clarify what was discussed today - I requested being signed off at mediation, do not wish to progress and as am putting an urgent application into court.

They have to sign you off then because you've stated what you want in writing. She still made me wait two days and said it had to come by email from the office!

I never used that mediator again! She was so determined to try and get me to commit to trying mediation she actually tried to stop me leaving the room - standing in front of the door! Second one I used (at a different time) was much more normal.

 

[Ash]

Thanks for the link. Haven't had chance to listen yet. I have read the odd articles about dealing with a narcissist during divorce. Keep your cards close to your chest.

For the future - assuming you get a 50/50 order - the more time you have with the kids, the better. Because it helps them grow up normally - they have more time protected from the narcissists manipulations and ways and it gives them half the time with normality - which helps their development.

That is what they say when the other parent is an alieanor. Alienators are also manipulating parents. The more time you have, the more important it is as it helps the kids keep their own minds and it's a safe place for them. They soon adjust to having things entirely different at both houses.

When it comes to asking for order wording, I would ask for a recital saying "neither parent will derogate the other parent to the children".

 

[StayStrong]

Thanks for the link. Haven't had chance to listen yet. I have read the odd articles about dealing with a narcissist during divorce. Keep your cards close to your chest.

For the future - assuming you get a 50/50 order - the more time you have with the kids, the better. Because it helps them grow up normally - they have more time protected from the narcissists manipulations and ways and it gives them half the time with normality - which helps their development.

That is what they say when the other parent is an alieanor. Alienators are also manipulating parents. The more time you have, the more important it is as it helps the kids keep their own minds and it's a safe place for them. They soon adjust to having things entirely different at both houses.

When it comes to asking for order wording, I would ask for a recital saying "neither parent will derogate the other parent to the children".

I'm going to contradict you here Ash (you know what I mean lol!)......you mean "denigrate" not derogate!!

SS.

 

[Ash]

Or both even! Or either . You've got me thinking now. Don't they mean the same thing?

 

[StayStrong]

Or both even! Or either . You've got me thinking now. Don't they mean the same thing?

Not quite!

Denigrate is used in my Order, hence the correction....or should I say 'contradiction' ;-)

SS.

 

[Ash]

Yes maybe slightly different. Derogation is a word often used re parental alienation which is maybe where I got it from. Denigrate is perhaps more clear.

Cambridge dictionary says:

Derogate apparently means to make something less good or important (derogating the other parent as lesser)
Denigrate - they say similar! To say someone is less good or important!

But I think denigrate is generally recognised as "bad mouthing" perhaps

derogate from something

1. to make something seem less good or important 2. to not behave according to…

dictionary.cambridge.org

denigrate

1. to say that someone or something is not good or important: 2. to say that…

dictionary.cambridge.org

I see it as - denigrate is bad mouthing - calling them names and saying they're rubbish
Derogate is undermining the other parent - stronger more subtle stuff like - those are rubbish choices of Dad's, no-one normal would do that

Main issue is - does the Mother (in our cases) actually understand such words or even bother to look them up

If it says denigrate in your order it does seem clear - don't badmouth or undermine the other parent. Maybe derogating is more something they do but denigrate is clearer. Dunno - got myself confused now!