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Two mums / advice needed from dads.

Ps . In your response about sitting tight and doing nothing , I often think I wish I could wait until the baby was older and I was a bit less exhausted, hormonal and emotionally fragile but I worry if I do wait that she will take the kids and go , least the older two .

Summer holidays are coming and I wouldn’t put it past her …
 
She’s spoken to solicitor this morning and she’s now claiming she wants half my businsss .

“ you take my kids il take your business “
 
she doesn’t have money but dad does , plus best friend is multi millionaire
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So she CAN afford to buy you out of your share of the house. Do not lose your equity in the house! This is your and the childrens future. And that can be part of your leverage. You get the Child Arrangements order before you move out. You say you won't move out unless she buys you out of your share. If she refuses you offer to buy her out of her share (you already have the 50/50 care order at this point). Regardless of how difficult all that could be, do you get the picture? You secure the childrens relationships initially. Then you're in a better position regarding the future and finances without being subject to emotional blackmail or financial blackmail.

Anyway to answer your questions
1) Yes the first appointment is the MIAM - you go on your own. MIAM is Mediation, Information Assessment Meeting. So it is not actually mediation. It is the first appointment where the mediator explains to you what mediation is, how it can help and where you explain to the mediator what the issues are. What usually happens next is the mediator wants to formally invite the other parent to mediation. They will recommend this and ask for your agreement on this.
2) Both parents CAN have their own MIAMs if they want but it's not necessary - if one person has the MIAM the other can be invited to the first mediation session.
3) It can cause delays. It can drag out and go nowhere. Meanwhile you haven't applied to court.
4) You are looking at an urgent application for prohibited steps. Technically an urgent application means you can skip having a MIAM - in reality they prefer you to have still had one and there is always the risk that the application is rejected if you haven't had one.

So best thing is

1) Have the MIAM. Tell the mediator you want to be signed off for an urgent application for prohibited steps. I would keep it to that. Take the form with you and ask them to sign it there and then (it's page 9 of the C100 form). They will strongly try and persuade you to try mediation. This is where it gets tricky. Obviously it would be better if it could be resolved by mediation but I think you and I both know it won't be, it will cause delays and she has already said she doesn't want to go. So what I have said to a mediator before is - I am perfectly happy to try mediation later but right now I need signing off to put an urgent application into court. (There is no reason you still can't have mediation later and sometimes the court orders it). But you need the MIAM sign off to be able to apply to court. If mediation did take place, then the sign off is at a later date, when the mediation fails or can go no further. Bearing in mind that ANYTHING agreed at mediation is not binding. The following day either party can change their minds and do something completely different.

So before I go onto 2) we need to establish the priorities.

Is the priority to get a prohibited steps order to prevent her moving away? If that is not the priority then you could attempt mediation and say to the mediator yes invite her and see if she will come.

But - if your wife has already had legal advice, which is likely - then she will know that mediation is the first step to applying to court. She may well do it first!

So my feeling is you should have the MIAM and ask to be signed off and tell the mediator you need an urgent prohibited steps order.

So you have time between now and next week to start completing the C100 form. But do keep your cards close to your chest. When you're in a relationship it's habit to tell the other person things. You need to get in the habit of acting normal and not telling her things. To protect yourself and the children in the long run. Sadly trust goes out the window when separation is looming. There can be a degree of trust (eg care of the children) but not on any legal or financial matter.

So your wife now knows you are going for a mediation appointment next week. Normally I would say - don't tell them. You go for the MIAM without them knowing, then the only know if they get invited to the next session. You may have to lie. If you don't want her to know yet that you're applying to court. Which could lead to a strong attack legally on you.

So keep things close to your chest. When is the mediation appointment next week? Can you get one earlier? If it's Monday - fine - if it's after Monday you could get one earlier by phoning a different mediation company and telling them you need an urgent appointment. I phoned three companies and got an appointment the next day.

Anyway - have the MIAM.

To answer the other questions:

The C100 form can be used for three types of application - any of the three, all of the three or some of the three.

It is used for applying for
a) A child Arrangements order - to legalise who the children live with and how long etc - eg the 50/50
b) A prohibited steps order
c) A specific issues order (usually for matters regarding which schools or to get a holiday ordered or permission from the court for something).

For example, technically your wife should not move away without the court's permission and should apply for a specific issues order to permit her to do that (that then puts you on a backfoot). Most don't do that - they just move - and get away with it because it's already happened and because there are no court orders in place right now so they're not breaching a court order.

In your case you want to apply for both the Child Arrangements Order and the Prohibited steps order, on the same application form. Child Arrangements is never considered urgent (unless you are seeking a non molestation order for self protection and accusing domestic abuse).

Prohibited steps is urgent - because someone could up and move in a day or two.

So it would be an urgent 48 hour application, with your MIAM sign off certificate included (page 9 of the form) for prohibited steps - and asking for the hearing to be the first hearing for Child Arrangements as well - which actually speeds up the Child Arrangements process if that happens. However the way the courts are these days it's unlikely to be the first Child Arrangements hearing and a later hearing could be listed for that. But it might be sorted at one hearing if agreement is reached.

The outcome would be the court making a temporary prohibited steps order, to prevent your wife moving the children away, until a second hearing - if there needs to be a second hearing. She might say, at the first hearing, that she has no intention of moving them away - in which case you want to ask the court for her to sign an undertaking stating she won't move the children away (then there is no need for the order). An undertaking is a serious legal document by the way.


So from what you've said - your wife has a parent and friends with money so is perhaps less likely to go the route of trying to get legal aid by claiming domestic abuse. She could still make allegations even if she is self funding. And that happens a lot. But it is also likely to be seen as retaliation to your application.

Do you have any concerns of harm to the children? If not, keep it as a straight application for Prohibited steps and Child Arrangements.

I understand it's overwhelming and the feel for needing support with all this. As mentioned earlier, you can get a free half hour's legal advice.

Personally I would

1) Have the MIAM, take page 9 of the C100, ask the mediator to sign you off saying it's an urgent application for prohibited steps. Repeat if necessary if they say blah blah, try mediation, blah blah we're not supposed to do that we send you the form in the post. Assertiveness is calmly repeating what you would like them to do. So repeat - yes but I need this form signing so I can submit the urgent 48 hour application for a prohibited steps order. Mediator says blah blah this, blah blah that. You say - yes but I need this form signing so I can submit the urgent 48 hour application for a prohibited steps order - please can you sign the form. You don't HAVE to agree to mediation continuing you can say no to it. They don't HAVE to sign the form on the day - but if you have declined proceeding with mediation, they HAVE to sign you off. They may refuse to sign the form and say they will send it to you in the post instead which is their normal practice. But do what you can there.

2) Have the C100 completed and ready to go before your MIAM. Once you have your MIAM certificate you put page 9 back into the application form. You need four copies of the application form (quite a bit of photocopying). Three to give to the court, one to keep. So the original plus three photocopies. If you can invest in a good stapler it's worth it as a standard one won't go through all the pages. A large paperclip is fine but that risks a page going missing.

3) You can either take the forms to the court yourself, pay with a debit card and wait - they can issue court papers on the day if you wait, and it's an urgent hearing. They will at least tell you how long it's likely to be after they've shown the application to a "gatekeeper". Or - you can just post it with a cheque for £232.

These are the first steps

Get the MIAM sign off. Get the application in. Because you're applying for 50/50 child arrangements on the same form, the wording for 5b needs to be carefully thought out - so we can go through that in the next few days.

So my suggestion is - get the MIAM sign off, get the application in. Then think about whether to use someone for hearings - whether it's a solitor or a McKenzie friend.
 
If you find you have a hearing very quickly, in two days, it's possible to get a solicitor the day before for the hearing. As your wife almost certainly will get one.

However, this urgent application pre-empts her going the route of getting an NMO, residency order and legal aid - because it's quick.

The day before the hearing, if she hasn't received the court papers, you can calmly say that you feel you both need assistance in working out what's best for the children and have asked the court to help decide things. But there is opportunity for agreement to be reached at the hearing.

Do you think she would ever become violent?

It is stressful - but it's also stressful being in this situation daily with the worry and threats.
 
The other option is

Try mediation. Hang fire. Go for the MIAM - let the mediator invite your wife. See if she attends. If she then refuses to go you have no option really but to apply to court. So it's weighing

a) the risk that she might move quickly with
b) trying to get things sorted more amicably.

Bearing in mind that it is not going to be amicable whatever you do and the court process doesn't have to be hostile. The courts like people to try and reach agreements as part of the process and may well order both of you to go to mediation. Which rarely works! They usually say "to narrow the issues".

This is also why finances are important. You have to survive, support the children and have housing. To be blunt - both parents need adequate finances and housing after separation. She can't just sit there in a nice house, being the "main parent" and expecting you to support her and give up the choldren (which is the crux of it). But if that's what she wants then yes she will fight dirty. The court process can curb that - if she behaves badly during the process it could count against her so it's an incentive for her to play ball and sound reasonable.

How are things at the moment? Do you think you want to try mediation first? She has already said no. You could just say - look I want us to be able to both be happy with any outcomes and a mediator might help us reach agreement. Let the mediator invite her and then if she refuses to go, then apply to court.

But if you really think she could up and move 300 miles away in the next couple of weeks, then get signed off at mediation and put the application in.
 
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First, I want to join the others in welcoming you as a mother. This is not hijacking, you are going through the same ****.

Reading your account I see grounds for allegations of abuse against your partner - coercive control, financial, psychological, physical, emotional - as a minimum. It could also be argued that she has failed to take account of the children's needs in her approach, and that the children are at risk if you are not in the picture. This is especially true if she indulges in drink or drugs.

My experience was having every allegation under the sun thrown at me to support an occupation order, non-molestation order, specific issue order, and a request that the court put me in a contact centre once a fortnight while allegations are tested before Child Arrangements are dealt with. The allegations came out of the blue and were shown to be empty, but they did the trick. She was not granted any of the orders, but was given "permission to remove" our child from my care until allegations were heard. It was game over for me in the first hearing.

To get to this point, my ex secured sign off from the mediator without inviting me to a session. She just told the mediator that mediation was not appropriate due to domestic abuse, possibly provided a letter as well. This would be a good turn to make if the mediator is resistant to signing you off. Domestic Abuse in the mix can also speed up the hearing. You can go for Ex Parte (no notice) if you feel under drastic threat, from the above it appears perhaps you do. The hearing within 2 days is abridged notice, I believe, in that case application does have to be served on the other side.

In short, if you press the nuclear button and throw everything at your ex, it could give you the upper hand. Moving towards a reasonable agreement could be easier from a position of relative power.

Alarm bells are ringing for me, some of the stuff you mention about grapes, nuts and locking doors, could be used as part of a much bigger application designed to discredit you. It sounds very similar to stuff used against me.

I am not making any recommendations, just sharing some of how things can go for the one who gets in first.

Family law is not fair or rational.
 
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That is a very good point Resolute makes. Family court is not like the real world. It is a system. And you need to know how to negotiate the system. I also think, if you want to succeed you should "get in first" with allegations". I know you're reluctant to do that - because you aren't like that and you want things to be normal and reasonable. But ultimately it's a fight for the security of the kids.

I think getting an application in quickly gets you on the right foot. But if your wife makes a lot of allegations, and claims she is the Mother of the elder two, there is the risk that it could be contact centre only time for a long time.

So yes it would be safer to go the route Resolute suggests. Go for an ex parte residency order, non molestation order and possibly even an occupation orde. Keep all the kids in the home with you - doesn't mean you won't let her see them.

It's big stuff - huge. But if you know she is going to make allegations, then she will fight dirty and you could lose all the kids - for a long time at least.

And honestly - she has been abusive! I understand what you mean though - at present you don't think the kids or you are at immediate risk of harm therefore it seems dishonest to go that route.

However - if you applied to court and she got the court papers and she got nasty ........The idea of the ex parte order and NMO is to protect you from these kind of threats.

This is partly why I suggested you have a free half hour's legal advice and see what a solicitor says. They will probably ask you about DA or previous DA. Previous DA counts just as much as current DA.

My feeling is that over the years you have become intimidated and are fearful of her but are still trying to be the nice reasonable one. It's hard to think clearly when you're thinking about the kids and immersed in a bad relationship.

Still go for your MIAM. Get half an hour free legal advice from a solicitor or two. Mention the history of DA.
 
Sorry, I forgot, there was also a Prohibited Steps Order in the picture for me - not to take child out of mother's care
 
Such big things for you to think about Clocky. It comes down to - do you play it straight - or do you raise the welfare issues you've had in the relationship. ie the controlling behaviour and now threatening to move the kids away.

My inclination is to a straight application. Getting the MIAM signed off next week and getting an application in. Any allegations she then makes will be looked into. But yes it could cause issues if she makes allegations.

So I think the thing to think about is - risk. If you went for an ex parte application to keep the kids with you, a non molestation order (meaning she can't contact you or come within a certain distance) - she would have to move out. But she wouldn't be able to take the kids with her. In the short term. In a way that's what you want isn't it?

I have been too soft with my ex in the past - I should have pushed harder for residency at one time, but wanted to be "fair" - didn't want to take the kids away from her and was happy with a reasonable arrangement. It was a mistake - give them an inch and they take a mile and no way did I get the same consideration and fairness back. It's dog eat dog to some of these people.

But as I said above, I think your best course of action now is to speak to a solicitor - it won't cost anything - the free half hour often extends up to an hour in some cases - still free, You can often tell how helpful or concerned they sound. A good one will really sound interested and concerned and I know for a fact that Solicitors advise Mothers to apply for an ex parte order and NMO and cite DA! They specifically ask things like - has he ever been aggressive - and vague questions and then say - you have grounds to claim DA.

It's disgusting really as Solicitors make money out of these situations.

The reason I say I'd still be inclined to do a straight application (but urgently and quickly) is because of your wife being the biological Mother of two of the children and in that sense, yes you would be seen as the Dad element. On the other hand, because you're a woman they will take you seriously over fears of DA.

I think the deciding factor will be

1) What the solicitor says (do speak to more than one - they vary hugely - it's just a phone call).

2) Whether or not your wife is likely to go a step further than aggression, threats and bullying and actually get physically violent if she received court papers. I think the answer to that is yes. You've already said she's hit you before. If you are at risk then you should go for the ex parte application (temporary residency of kids, prohibited steps and non molestation order). Then you have the upper hand and are in a safer position. to do that though, you would need a solicitor and they would be looking at getting legal aid for you.
 
Clocky123 said:
She’s spoken to solicitor this morning and she’s now claiming she wants half my businsss .

“ you take my kids il take your business “
Click to expand...

It is not unusual at all for one party to be covertly recording the other and attempting to provoke them into saying things that can be edited and taken entirely out of context. I could never have believed how despicable a person can be once they have a mission in mind, you have to see it to believe it.

Financial stuff is for later down the road. The only reason to think about it now is if it becomes part of a consent order which includes arrangements for the kids. This feels unlikely from what you have posted so far.

It might be wise to speak as though you are being recorded at all times. And, as I am sure Ash has already said, keep your own records.
 
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Oh gosh my mind is blown .

I know she has been abusive to me but she kills herself to be the best mum she can - I know this sounds paradoxical. She’s had so much abandonment from childhood that she’s terrified to lose the kids , she’s never had day or night away from them ever. I would honestly be scared that she would do something terrible if the kids got removed from her care .

All that being said , she has been vile to me and I don’t trust her at all .

She’s today said that she will go to mediation but I think that’s because she’s spoken to a lawyer who has advised it .

I think if I accept 3/7 week then 2/5 week she will accept that as she’s probably been told that I have good chance of securing shared residence or whatever it’s called. However if I try go for 50/50 then I think she will go hell for leather and I agree Resolute that she could play dirty.

There’s few things logically I think are in my favour . Even though like you said Ash I basically have been beaten down and I’m literally shaking inside permanently at the moment for even standing up to her this much !
When she hit me , she hit me with a bowl my face blew up like an elephant man , I went to hospital and send the photos to my friends and my brother . They have still got . If she makes accusations do you think I can use this ? She is absolutely terrified of me bringing this up although she basically looks me in eyes and tells me that a mirror fell on my face . Which is what I told everyone at the time.

Also the fact I carried the third baby , a lovely happy baby , there has never been an accident with him or any of the kids . I am also a qualified teacher and run a business about kids sport . What are they gonna do , take the older two away and leave me with the baby ? Or take all 3 ? Surely not ?? Or am I being too trusting ??!!!

Maybe I’m being naive but I’m hopeful that her accusations wouldn’t get anywhere but like you say what if she gets in first . I’m not sure she will though because of the time she hit me . Then again she never thinks straight so who knows ?!!! And I have no doubt she’s recording stuff she told me she went to DV shelter the day after she hit me because I have emotionally abused her she then flipped.

Ash I’ve spoken to two lawyers so far they both said watery advice don’t leave house try get her to go to mediation and that was about it . I mean it was useful at the time because I was seconds away from moving out and getting a rental .

If she comes to mediation next week , what then ? Stlll apply for the C100?

I’ve never felt so stressed and scared in my life so sorry I’m probably talking in riddles but I can’t tell you how grateful I am for your replies .

X
 
Clocky123 said:
Oh gosh my mind is blown .

I know she has been abusive to me but she kills herself to be the best mum she can - I know this sounds paradoxical. She’s had so much abandonment from childhood that she’s terrified to lose the kids , she’s never had day or night away from them ever. I would honestly be scared that she would do something terrible if the kids got removed from her care .

All that being said , she has been vile to me and I don’t trust her at all .

She’s today said that she will go to mediation but I think that’s because she’s spoken to a lawyer who has advised it .

I think if I accept 3/7 week then 2/5 week she will accept that as she’s probably been told that I have good chance of securing shared residence or whatever it’s called. However if I try go for 50/50 then I think she will go hell for leather and I agree Resolute that she could play dirty.

There’s few things logically I think are in my favour . Even though like you said Ash I basically have been beaten down and I’m literally shaking inside permanently at the moment for even standing up to her this much !
When she hit me , she hit me with a bowl my face blew up like an elephant man , I went to hospital and send the photos to my friends and my brother . They have still got . If she makes accusations do you think I can use this ? She is absolutely terrified of me bringing this up although she basically looks me in eyes and tells me that a mirror fell on my face . Which is what I told everyone at the time.

Also the fact I carried the third baby , a lovely happy baby , there has never been an accident with him or any of the kids . I am also a qualified teacher and run a business about kids sport . What are they gonna do , take the older two away and leave me with the baby ? Or take all 3 ? Surely not ?? Or am I being too trusting ??!!!

Maybe I’m being naive but I’m hopeful that her accusations wouldn’t get anywhere but like you say what if she gets in first . I’m not sure she will though because of the time she hit me . Then again she never thinks straight so who knows ?!!! And I have no doubt she’s recording stuff she told me she went to DV shelter the day after she hit me because I have emotionally abused her she then flipped.

Ash I’ve spoken to two lawyers so far they both said watery advice don’t leave house try get her to go to mediation and that was about it . I mean it was useful at the time because I was seconds away from moving out and getting a rental .

If she comes to mediation next week , what then ? Stlll apply for the C100?

I’ve never felt so stressed and scared in my life so sorry I’m probably talking in riddles but I can’t tell you how grateful I am for your replies .

X
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There is loads in your message, and you obviously have an awful lot to filter.

All I want to say for now is, if she is not acting in good faith, you have to consider perverse motives. For example:

1) Sudden agreement on mediation, could be buying time

2) The assault on you, could be a big reason for her to get in first, rather than a reason for her to avoid the hearing. First hearing will be an hour. If enough is thrown into the application, it won't matter what the truth is.

I would not dream of commenting on whether or not you are being too trusting. All I want to show, is what could happen if you are.

I think the solicitors you spoke to might have been looking at you as the "respondent". I defer to Ash on this, but I'd think about contacting a solicitor to discuss an application. Just to inform you on the options.

Look after yourself
 
Ok so I would be slightly concerned that she has agreed to go to mediation. She could also ask to get signed off after a MIAM and apply to court first. If she's spoken to a solicitor, that's a possibility. Has she discussed how she will go to mediation? Ie will she go to the one you've set up or is she suggesting somewhere else. The problem is you really do need to have the MIAM on your own first. That's the only legal requirement for a court application is the MIAM.

I hear what you say about her abandonment issues. And other things - however these people can get quite dangerous if they feel threatened. Attachment disorders can lead to a complete lack of empathy. People like that also have a habit of accusing others of what they did themselves (as you mentioned accuses you of abuse to cover for her hitting you).

When she says she will go to mediation, is this vague or is she definitely saying yes - go ahead and sort it? She isn't going to like the idea of you going on your own first, so don't tell her about that first appointment. When is it next week? Monday or later in the week?

At least things have calmed down a bit now. She is talking how many days a week you will see "her" kids (sounds very much like the golden uterus syndrome type thing!) - rather than saying - what are "we" going to do that's best for the kids.

How were you thinking 50/50 could work by the way? Do you like the idea of 2-2-5-5 fortnightly? That would mean the baby would also be having that same schedule.

So it looks like taking it one day at a time.

At the moment, you have a MIAM booked for next week (for you). The only way you can have mediation together is if one (or both of you) has had a MIAM. You don't want to be encouraging her to have her own MIAM or she could apply to court first (if she has legal advice). But yes a solicitor may have said to her - you'll need to try mediation first. But she may also have said - if that doesn't work she can apply to court.

Unfortunately these situations can be very cat and mouse. Keep alert.

So as I see it your options are still

1) Try mediation (but have a C100 prepared and ready to go just in case it fails at the first hurdle).
2) Go for the NMO, PSO ex parte route, with the information she has physically abused you before, but agree to her having regular time with the children as she's not a risk to them.

Basically the latter puts you in control. You have the temporary residency order but you "allow" her near 50/50 time. So you get 50/50. Then you generously agree to 50/50 shared care at the second hearing - rather than having to fight for it from the outset and risk not getting it.

However stressful this is, you have to live with this separated parent situation for a long time.
 
The problem with an ex who is terrified to lose the kids is their ongoing erratic behaviour. Just supposing you agreed to 2 or 3 days a week. And it was all in an order. And then in a couple of years you met a new partner. That is when these ex's start getting to be a major problem - stop the kids seeing you, make false allegations. All out of fear that the kids may prefer the family set up at your house, or even choose to live with you in the future (plus jealousy and anger thrown in). Would you do that? No - you'd accept her having a new partner, think it was good for the kids - because you're the stable one.

This happens so much on here. Dad meets a new partner, Mum stops the kids seeing him - months in court to get them back again. In the worst situations Mum actually turns the kids against you and fills their head with lies - the excuse there being is "I can't make them go, they don't want to". Desperate, unstable people do things like that.

It may be that the mediator persuades her 50/50 is best all round - so you both feel secure and equal and the kids all stay together. The thing is - even if you reached an agreement on Child Arrangements (that could be put into a consent order and no court needed) she will still want to stay in the house and you won't get your share of it.
 
Thanks @Resolute and @Ash

You are bang on about her personality ash , she always does things and then says it’s me, it’s quite bizarre like sometimes I genuinely think she believes it was me ..

Also your point about meeting someone new , this will be true , she already alienates the kids from my parents and family unless it’s on her terms. And she’s obsessed with her being called “ mummy “ as I am “ mama “ she goes mad if anyone says two mummies or calls me mummy , I know because then she feels that the kids will only relate that rule to her . She already sent me a text yesterday saying “… just said she wants to live with me forever “ about our 3 year old .

So now if I go for the mediation on my own how does that fair if the mediator then invites her now she’s said she’ll go ?

You think it’s dangerous for us to go together but if I go on my own and the mediator then invites her to session after she will go mental and say she said she would go etc etc .

C100 form I’m going to start today .
 
Hi Clocky,

You are going through such a horrible time, I really feel for you and hope things can be sorted. I remember when I was in your position, it was absolutely mind-blowing.

Here is a link I found very revealing. It may mean nothing to you, but if the answers hit home, they might provide some perspective:

www.quora.com

When a narcissist accuses you of something do they know you are innocent or do they actually believe that you do the things they accuse y...

Answer (1 of 25): Already been some good answers here… I think the first thing is that they don’t always know who is who, and what is what.. And that includes themselves. As much as they are disconnected with you, and disconnected from reality, they are really pretty disconnected from themselve...
www.quora.com www.quora.com

I defended my ex right to the end, I am still not sure she has insight into her behaviour. I now realise, this does not excuse her, it makes her more dangerous. Here is another one I found revealing:

www.psychologytoday.com

Understand a Narcissist From an Object Relations Perspective

How a narcissist manipulates and controls by playing favorites.
www.psychologytoday.com www.psychologytoday.com

Reading your story made me think of the above links, but I am looking from outside and carry a bias from my own experience. You are really the only person who can make a judgment here, I hope some of what has been posted in this thread helps to inform that judgment.

Res.
 
@Resolute thsnk you for those links - I have often thought she has NPD.

She reminds me so much of Amber Heard , I watched the Jonny Depp case with so much interest. I know they go on about men with power but it was clear to see how she was lying and manipulating throughout the whole trial .

The fact that she lost actually gave me some fire in my belly to fight the situation I find myself in. Although we must remember Jonny lost the case 4 years ago .
 
You think it’s dangerous for us to go together but if I go on my own and the mediator then invites her to session after she will go mental and say she said she would go etc etc .
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Whether she has NPD or some other personality disorder or an attachment disorder, you need to watch your back and be strategic, because one things is clear, she is quite capable of lying, gaslighting and manipulation (traits of a narcissist but I don't always like to put labels on things as some people are just plain bad!). What I will say is Dr Craig Childress, an expert in parental alienation, diagnoses most alienators as having an attachment disorder. They mirror their own childhood trauma onto the child. Now before you start feeling sorry for them for having a childhood trauma of some kind (abandonment or whatever) - don't do that. They are dangerous and very harmful to children psychologically and mentally. Even if you weren't on the scene, they would control the childrens independence as they get older. Their need is to be in control all the time. And to have a scapegoat. In my case the attention was taken off me and my partner when the ex remarried - suddenly her own family with her H and his kids was absolute chaos, drama, trauma. He lost his kids basically and they split up. My son then became the scapegoat which was incredibly worrying. Then they got back together and I became the scapegoat again. I accept that because it's better than my son being one. He is not in a great position, in the middle, but he negotiates it. And the one thing you need, to manage a person like this is a tightly worded, well defined court order. To pin them down with no wriggle room whatsoever. So they can't manipulate the meaning of the court order and interpret it how they want (and believe me my ex tried that!). The first order accidentally made her the resident parent (I was green with my first application). This made her much much worse. As such it said the parent with residency may leave the country for up to 28 days. This is intended for the resident parent to go on holiday for up to 28 days without needing the consent of the other parent - but only within their own court ordered holiday time! My ex deliberately misinterpreted that and whisked my son away abroad for 3 weeks during term time ................ I had to go back to court to get a better order. Which I did and it improved my son's life tremendously. These parents will then try to manipulate the child's "wishes" once they get to age 12 or over and claim they are choosing to do or not do something (putting the child in the middle again when it's not actually their choice). But don't worry about that just yet - a good court order is a good court order. And it makes a very big difference if it says "lives with both parents" (ie shared care) whether that is 50/50 or 60/40 etc. It counts for a lot more if you ever need to return to court and means you're less likely to need to return to court.

Anyway - I will stop going on, but avoid being human and feeling sympathy for person who will harm you - I have fallen into that trap before. You need to grow a hard shell. And keep 100% focused on the children. You are not trying to "take them away" from her - you are ensuring they continue to have the stability and love of BOTH parents throughout their lives, and believe me, having one stable parent in their lives does them tremendous good and helps avoid the harm from the "narcissistic" parent - it gives them a large built in first aid kit, so to speak.

Anyway back to your comment about the mediation. I am guessing, from that, that she already knows you have a mediation appointment for next week. So she's now manipulating that. Behaving as if it is "just" a mediation appointment for both of you. This is why it's best to have the MIAM discreetly without letting the other parent know. But she knows now. So you are going to have to play this carefully.

I am not actually sure whether a mediator would accept both parents going at the same time, without one having a MIAM first. They might, but that doesn't give you the MIAM you might need. I haven't come across this before.

But what I suggest is you have a MIAM elsewhere with a different mediator, while attending this appointment next week that you have already made. Having said that, you will need to contact the current mediator and tell them that your partner wants to attend with you. The mediator might well then say that you both have to have a MIAM before mediation can start.

So first thing to do is contact the mediator and say your partner has agreed to attend mediation and wants to come to the appointment with you next week but you are a bit concerned that you haven't had your MIAM yet. See what she says. I suggest that perhaps you tell your wife that you both have to have a MIAM - a first appointment on your own to assess for finances and legal aid before joint mediation can start. So the mediator sees you both separately initially, and then together. This is actually the case! But your partner will see it as some kind of trick no doubt.

I know it's hard to imagine the future or how bad or otherwise it might be, but all I can say is - trust your instincts. I had bad instincts about my ex within 3 weeks (after receiving a couple of fairly abusive messages when I declined to do something). They proved to be correct. I had nothing but threats and blackmail for years when my child was born. We never actually lived together - she didn't even really know me we dated for such a short time! Yet still tried to make allegations when it came to court. I was controlling apparently! I had the advantage of history - how could I be controlling when she didn't even know me and I had done everything right! Never missed a pick up time, helped her with whatever she needed for the baby at her request, paid the nursery fees (which I couldn't afford) plus more CM than I was assessed for (that was blackmail by the way).

Thankfully history and lack of knowing each other and the ridiculous claims, were dismissed. These days a Mother only has to mention "coercive control" and you're labelled as an abuser. And yet "narcissists" will always accuse someone of what they do themselves - they can't help it - it's projection and it's "attack as a form of defence".

You need to protect yourself and the children. I hope mediation helps, but remember anything agreed at mediation is not legally binding. What you would want from mediation is an agreement, that, your agreement will be put into a consent order (ie a Child Arrangements order without needing to go to court). If she says no to that then you know she has no intention of keeping to any agreement as she won't commit to it legally.

If you did reach agreement for a consent order, you would both then need a separate solicitor. Your solicitor would draw up the order and her solicitor would need to approve the wording. And the order is then submitted to the court for sealing. This should be inexpensive and straightforward. But what can happen is - toing and froing over the wording of the order because they don't want to commit to something and want vague wording and wriggle room!

Another couple on here had this recently. The ex insisted she wanted a consent order - negotiations went back and forth and she just wouldn't commit to clear wording. It ended up costing thousands and in the end they had to go to court to get the order. And got a good order.

So a consent order (ie by agreement) will only work or be cost effective, if she is persuaded by the mediator to commit to a properly worded order wording. Verbal agreement means absolutely nothing.

50/50 does say it all, but within that you need specifics like - who picks them up from school etc, which weeks holiday are with which parent (otherwise that will be manipulated too with changing agreements all the time to mess up your plans).

Phone the mediator and explain the situation.
 
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