Thanks Bucky, please keep us update. Just had an earlier recommendation by CAFCASS for a fact-find hearing upturned by the Magistrates. Proceeding to S7 now.
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CAFCASS Experiences
- Thread starter Cheese_Head_1986
- Start date
Good point, and I'd be interested to know what others have done here. I would have approached the CAFCASS officer about my concerns immediately after the Section 7 report arrived, and before the second of the three court appearances, but those giving me legal advice told me not to as it would make me look argumentative and we should instead try to raise things in Court instead - which my barrister shied away from. I've no idea if my legal advice was good or bad, but what I do know is that it wasn't always consistent and they (my solicitor and barrister) made some big mistakes. I tried to represent myself initially but it went very badly, my ex-partner's legal team used my lack of experience to do some appalling things and ultimately got the Courts to sign off their version of the first order.
What I take away from my experience of family court is that there seems to be a deep fear of being honest where it might support the trope that men are abusive, aggressive and secondary parents to mothers, and also that the legal system itself is a huge lottery (there I mean magistrates, CAFCASS, self-representation, barristers), rather than one operating in smooth logic. Bring on AI maybe?
Definitely not in my opinion. Who is to blame if it goes wrong? The programmer of the system? Who do you complain to? It'll be the epitome of 'computer says no'.
You're totally right and I was being half tongue in cheek, I don't think it would solve things but I'd be willing to bet it won't be long before it's used more, got the same reason legal firms use AI to deal with overwhelming paperwork.
Sadly, you may have noticed in the first page of the Cafcass report that they attach a note stating that they will only deal with major factual errors and that everything else should be addressed in Court to the judge. I think you done right thing making a complaint by the way. Now it is a case of you dismantling the report in your next hearing. Usually the case management process allow the parties to express their views regarding the Cafcass officer's view and even cross-examined the officer in Court. In my case the Judge ignored the Cafcass officer's recommendation in the main and there was no need for cross-examination at the final hearing
From my personal experiences and from reading many others experiences, making a formal complaint to Cafcass is complete a waste of time and energy.
They pass your complaint on to their internal Cafcass complainants team who then respond via email weeks later with nothing resolved and then close the file.
They obviously side with their colleagues who can't do anything wrong, and there is possibly no way that they have wrote any information wrong in their innocent little reports.
Remember, CAFCASS are trained professionals and there is no way that they can get anything wrong, ever.. ever.
Save it for the courtroom where they can get their precious little reports flawed and your barrister can tear them a new one!!
Cafcass need abolishing asap!!
They pass your complaint on to their internal Cafcass complainants team who then respond via email weeks later with nothing resolved and then close the file.
They obviously side with their colleagues who can't do anything wrong, and there is possibly no way that they have wrote any information wrong in their innocent little reports.
Remember, CAFCASS are trained professionals and there is no way that they can get anything wrong, ever.. ever.
Save it for the courtroom where they can get their precious little reports flawed and your barrister can tear them a new one!!
Cafcass need abolishing asap!!
Hello all, I received the response from CAFCASS as below with names redacted, and am sharing as promised in case anyone is interested. What puzzles me is the last sentence in their email below, as I did make a complaint and was not asking for 'local resolution'. In my complaint letter I asked for three things in light of significant mistruths in their document which were provably untrue as I had recorded their interview of me:
>>>CAFCASS response<<<
When we spoke, I shared with you the action I would take in reflecting on our discussion with child's Family Court Adviser and you shared that you were satisfied with this as a resolution.
I am mindful that Ms XXX report, her professional judgement, recommendations and her oral evidence were tested in Court where you had the opportunity to cross examine her on many of the matters below that you raised and the Court has now finalised proceedings for child having listened to all the evidence. However, I did meet with child's Family Court Adviser, Ms XXX and reflected with her on our conversation following our meeting. I shared how you had experienced the proceedings as a whole and Cafcass involvement. We reflected in this discussion that although Ms XXX assessment stands and her recommendations would have remained the same, it may have been helpful for her to have shared her thinking and recommendations with you prior to the report being filed, to provide further context or reasoning. We also discussed your feelings and views in respect of Ms XXX inviting child to the office with her mother and initially, not also yourself. This, I understand from you was resolved at the time. We reflected on the planning stages of our work and how this may be perceived by the parent who was not also invited in. Ms XXX is mindful of this following you raising your concerns and will actively consider in the planning of her work moving forward.
During our discussion, you talked about wanting to provide constructive feedback to our service. I wondered if you had come across Cafcass’ family forum who recruit new members every year. This group was set up for family members who have had direct experience of court proceedings and Cafcass involvement to directly influence our improvements in the work we do with children and families. I have included the link to this below, should this be something you are interested in.
Cafcass Family Forum | Cafcass
Thank you for taking the time to provide feedback about your experience, I hope the above information reassures you that this was considered thoroughly. I am mindful that we met about your concerns by way of a local resolution as opposed to through an official complaint and this is why you have not received a full response letter. If you would wish to engage with the full complaints process, please do request this through the complaints section of the Cafcass website.
- Reflection with the CAFCASS officer (they have done this in the below)
- A communication that the issues in the section 7 report were not accurate or appropriate, and were biased (they have refused this indirectly in the text below)
- The opportunity to provide future constructive input to CAFCASS processes or materials (they have provided this below)
>>>CAFCASS response<<<
When we spoke, I shared with you the action I would take in reflecting on our discussion with child's Family Court Adviser and you shared that you were satisfied with this as a resolution.
I am mindful that Ms XXX report, her professional judgement, recommendations and her oral evidence were tested in Court where you had the opportunity to cross examine her on many of the matters below that you raised and the Court has now finalised proceedings for child having listened to all the evidence. However, I did meet with child's Family Court Adviser, Ms XXX and reflected with her on our conversation following our meeting. I shared how you had experienced the proceedings as a whole and Cafcass involvement. We reflected in this discussion that although Ms XXX assessment stands and her recommendations would have remained the same, it may have been helpful for her to have shared her thinking and recommendations with you prior to the report being filed, to provide further context or reasoning. We also discussed your feelings and views in respect of Ms XXX inviting child to the office with her mother and initially, not also yourself. This, I understand from you was resolved at the time. We reflected on the planning stages of our work and how this may be perceived by the parent who was not also invited in. Ms XXX is mindful of this following you raising your concerns and will actively consider in the planning of her work moving forward.
During our discussion, you talked about wanting to provide constructive feedback to our service. I wondered if you had come across Cafcass’ family forum who recruit new members every year. This group was set up for family members who have had direct experience of court proceedings and Cafcass involvement to directly influence our improvements in the work we do with children and families. I have included the link to this below, should this be something you are interested in.
Cafcass Family Forum | Cafcass
Thank you for taking the time to provide feedback about your experience, I hope the above information reassures you that this was considered thoroughly. I am mindful that we met about your concerns by way of a local resolution as opposed to through an official complaint and this is why you have not received a full response letter. If you would wish to engage with the full complaints process, please do request this through the complaints section of the Cafcass website.
This comes across as "lessons will be learned", which doesn't help with your situation.
I'm not expecting anything to change for me, but am inclined to press them for others in future.
They haven't addressed the key issue of bias and errors in their report. I'd like them to feel a bit of heat so that they pause in future before being less than objective and factual.
What do others think?
They haven't addressed the key issue of bias and errors in their report. I'd like them to feel a bit of heat so that they pause in future before being less than objective and factual.
What do others think?
Having dealt with other official organisations myself, I'd agree with @Ash. On the plus side to taking your complaint further, might help you vent a bit, and make you feel like you didn't take it lieing down. Also, as you say @Willoughby, it may cause them to "pause in future before being less than objective and factual," thus helping other unfortunate dads down the line. However, I would carefully consider whether making a complaint now, won't make waves for yourself in future. ie. are you sure you'll never have to deal with CAFCASS again? Good on you if you do decide to go further with your complaint.
My read in this is:
- you had your chance to undermine the report, you didn't take it, so don't complain about our assessment after the fact.
- we take on board how we ran the steps, which we would not have changed even with hindsight, but we could have told you each step of the way
- They do acknowledge that this INDIVIDUAL fca WILL think a bit harder about being level between parents BUT it's not a wider issue to consider
- If you want a letter response, she's just saying make your complaint formal, be my guest which is fair enough
- The cafcass forum is interesting, it might be worth attending those to see how biased there feedback system is and whether any actions actually make it into their process
- you had your chance to undermine the report, you didn't take it, so don't complain about our assessment after the fact.
- we take on board how we ran the steps, which we would not have changed even with hindsight, but we could have told you each step of the way
- They do acknowledge that this INDIVIDUAL fca WILL think a bit harder about being level between parents BUT it's not a wider issue to consider
- If you want a letter response, she's just saying make your complaint formal, be my guest which is fair enough
- The cafcass forum is interesting, it might be worth attending those to see how biased there feedback system is and whether any actions actually make it into their process
Cafcass are just plain awful. Almost always misandric, usually incompetent, not fit for purpose. Or at least not the purpose dads and children think, or the purpose they advertise. They've been awful for decades and nothing has changed.
Understand, they exist to enable the court to claim they acted in the best interests of the child. Running cover. That's all.
Unless they can refer to local authority child services, police, actual evidenced incidents, they will recommend mum gets residence, dad gets alternate weekends.
Worse, if mum is making false allegations, cafcass will support her. Child loses dad for the year it takes to go through the court process. Then cafcass say it would disrupt the child's routine to see dad, regardless.
They are Kafkaesque. They do not care about your child, they despise you.
Do not engage without knowing they will mess you up. They enabled my ex to alienate my daughter. So a child loses a decent dad and a dad has their child kidnapped, then the kidnap legitimised.
If you're tough, hope for the best. But always prepare for the worst, as that's what cafcass will do to you.
Understand, they exist to enable the court to claim they acted in the best interests of the child. Running cover. That's all.
Unless they can refer to local authority child services, police, actual evidenced incidents, they will recommend mum gets residence, dad gets alternate weekends.
Worse, if mum is making false allegations, cafcass will support her. Child loses dad for the year it takes to go through the court process. Then cafcass say it would disrupt the child's routine to see dad, regardless.
They are Kafkaesque. They do not care about your child, they despise you.
Do not engage without knowing they will mess you up. They enabled my ex to alienate my daughter. So a child loses a decent dad and a dad has their child kidnapped, then the kidnap legitimised.
If you're tough, hope for the best. But always prepare for the worst, as that's what cafcass will do to you.
I agree Cafcass are awful. Their purpose is welfare rather than best interests of the child. So on the one hand I can see they are responsible for checking things out if a Mother makes allegations, to ensure safety, because there are children killed by parents every year. On the other hand they are apparently (I think I read this on a Karen Woodall blog), trained to a 1970s' feminist model of social work that "Mother knows best". So they are inherently biased towards Mothers. And yes there are some reasonable ones and there are some who do seem to be man haters. I had one quite good, but ineffective, one early on. I had another one (twice) who I will never forgive or forget because her behaviour and attitude meant my son was left without protection. Generally, Cafcass protect Mothers, not children.
Interesting to know what Cafcass do about "alternate weekends" with dad's who have shift work. How do they go about the 4ons4offs working dads?