Second Hearing

[Ash]

He took the SW's view as evidence by the sound of it, but that isn't a fair playing field - there has to be evidence on both sides.

DB plenty of people have done an appeal on their own. It's not as big as it sounds and it's a chance to have another hearing with a different Judge and have the last hearing overruled.

A guy on here last year was left with contact centre only (I think - or it might have been indirect only) based on a Cafcass officer saying that at a final hearing and he was self repping and out of his depth. I helped him with the appeal papers - I had never done them before and neither had he but we worked it out. He got his appeal and he now has a full child arrangements order. He posted on here not long ago.

 

[Ash]

Today will have drained you DB so don't make any decisions just yet.

If you feel like giving up putting in an appeal means you have nothing to lose.

To just say whichever route you take means no contact, without a s7 is strong grounds of appeal.

Exactly.

 

[Peanut 21]

Appeals - childlawadvice.org.uk

When can you submit an appeal? You cannot submit an appeal just because you do not agree with the judge's decision. You will be required to show you have grounds to appeal the decision. Grounds of appeal You will need to show that the decision of the judge of the lower court was: wrong, or […]

childlawadvice.org.uk

 

[Ash]

It's quite a lot of paperwork. An application form and a grounds of appeal form, plus a statement - but not so different to an application or a final statement. I think it goes to a circuit judge to decide whether you have permission to appeal, based on the grounds submitted. If you get permission, you get another hearing and a different Judge - hopefully one who knows what's what. If you don't get permission - well at least you tried.

Peanut - didn't your ex's partner appeal at least once? And she got a hearing didn't she?

 

[DB2021]

Today will have drained you DB so don't make any decisions just yet.

If you feel like giving up putting in an appeal means you have nothing to lose.

To just say whichever route you take means no contact, without a s7 is strong grounds of appeal.

"unjust because of a serious procedural or other irregularity in the proceedings in the lower court"

Thanx peanut I’ve never felt so low but I do feel that little bit of fight deep down and as you and ash have both said I have nothing to lose by appealing.

I just have no faith in the system anymore

 

[DadLad]

"A hero is an ordinary individual who finds the strength to persevere and endure in spite of overwhelming obstacles"

@DB2021 we are our children's Hero!!

Take a breath, then fight your case!!

 

[DB2021]

"A hero is an ordinary individual who finds the strength to persevere and endure in spite of overwhelming obstacles"

@DB2021 we are our children's Hero!!

Take a breath, then fight your case!!

Thank you for that DadLad.

And I know I’ve come this far a little more fighting won’t make things any worse.

I just wish there was more time to appeal really rather than7 days forces you into things so quickly but I guess the quicker the better

 

[Peanut 21]

It might be worth getting free solicitor advice just so they can give you the legal reasons why the judge is wrong.

 

[Ash]

Some things can be sent on later - eg a statement - as long as the application and grounds of appeal form is done within 7 days. The first day is the day of the hearing.

So tomorrow you could apply for the transcription - that form is easy.

Giving up leaves your daughter with bad people and she may also suffer guilt at her own behaviour as well. It's worth a try.

 

[DadLad]

Thank you for that DadLad.

And I know I’ve come this far a little more fighting won’t make things any worse.

I just wish there was more time to appeal really rather than7 days forces you into things so quickly but I guess the quicker the better

I'm almost 3 years in and I've felt like giving up because I've had everything against me. I've been knocked back so many times but I just can't give up.

We are all fighting for what is right.. a loving relationship with our kids!!

 

[Ash]

It might be worth getting free solicitor advice just so they can give you the legal reasons why the judge is wrong.

Also apply to We are Advocate for a pro bono barrister.

 

[DB2021]

Also apply to We are Advocate for a pro bono barrister.

yeah I’ll look into both tomorrow and get the ball rolling with that.

I don’t think I’ll get a pro bono one as whilst I can’t afford a barrister as I don’t have the saved funds to pay upfront if that makes sense I do earn good money some months due to being a salesman but it’s not guaranteed which makes it hard to spend the little savings i have because I may need them to survive in the off season if that makes sense.

 

[DB2021]

Thanx Peanut and DadLad I really appreciate all your advice and kind words.

I’m feeling a little bit better already and have that strength in me to continue as far as I can go

 

[Resolute]

Would there be any chance of the appeal deadline being 21 days? Would it now be a final order?

 

[Ash]

Good point. But it wasn't a final hearing. So I think it might still be the 7 days. Or are you saying it became a final hearing?

 

[Resolute]

Good point. But it wasn't a final hearing. So I think it might still be the 7 days. Or are you saying it became a final hearing?

I'm not sure. If there are no further hearings, the order would be a final order. I think it is the type of order that sets the timeframe. But, I am not even sure an order will be produced. Proceedings may have been put aside by agreement. In which case, is there a decision that can be challenged?

Edit
All I'm saying/asking is speculative. Advice would be valuable. I just struggle to trust solicitors.

 

[Ash]

We'd need DB to answer that one but it sounded like the Judge was going to make a no contact order.

 

[DB2021]

We'd need DB to answer that one but it sounded like the Judge was going to make a no contact order.

I had a choice a no contact order but with ex and professionals to encourage xxxx to see me and if and when she ever decides in further to let me know.

Or

A final hearing where I couldn’t produce any evidence or question ex or sw as judge didn’t see the need for either.

I did decline the final hearing as I didn’t feel there was any other option but I think maybe that’s where I’ve screwed up but I a was under such pressure and duress I just crumbled tbh

 

[Resolute]

I had a choice a no contact order but with ex and professionals to encourage x to see me and if and when she ever decides in further to let me know.

Or

A final hearing where I couldn’t produce any evidence or question ex or sw as judge didn’t see the need for either.

I did decline the final hearing as I didn’t feel there was any other option but I think maybe that’s where I’ve screwed up but I a was under such pressure and duress I just crumbled tbh

If an appeal is possible, and if it is 21 days, I think there will be loads of ways you can argue that practice directions were not followed.

 

[DB2021]

If an appeal is possible, and if it is 21 days, I think there will be loads of ways you can argue that practice directions were not followed.

All I can do is try to appeal and go from there.

Trying leaves me no worse off but I really appreciate your advice resolute it’s good to see things from other perspectives.

And you may be right and if I’ve taken the chance to appeal away from myself then I’ll just have to accept that. I was under so much pressure had no one to support me so judge was easily able to walk all over me.