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Second Hearing

DB2021

DB2021

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Hi all.

So my second hearing is tomorrow so so nervous as I know just how important it is that I get a guardian appointed so I have everything crossed.

Made one mistake already though by letting sw know I’d submitted my position statement 🤦‍♂️ a mistake I won’t make again.

I’ve read some amazing outcomes recently so I’m going into the hearing tomorrow positive and I hope I can also add to those amazing outcomes by 4pm tomorrow.
 
DB2021 said:
Hi all.

So my second hearing is tomorrow so so nervous as I know just how important it is that I get a guardian appointed so I have everything crossed.

Made one mistake already though by letting sw know I’d submitted my position statement 🤦‍♂️ a mistake I won’t make again.

I’ve read some amazing outcomes recently so I’m going into the hearing tomorrow positive and I hope I can also add to those amazing outcomes by 4pm tomorrow.
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All the best matey. Keep positive and remain focused. Keep your head and be polite the everybody on the day 💪💪💪
 
Hi all.

So sadly and heartbreakingly I can’t join the good news as I lost today.

Judge was horrific again and despite putting in interim order that he would revisit a guardian if there was no improvement he had no intentions of doing so.

He believed sw and ex implicitly and nothing I said was listened to or even taken into account.

I’m at the end of my fight as I can’t put my little girl through anymore I’ve only ever wanted her to have the best most loving life and having professionals and ex constantly at her is not that.

This system is so bad and so many loving fathers are removed from there kids life for absolutely no reason and I’m sadly a part of that statistic.

Judge gave me 2 options accept a no contact order but ex and professionals are to encourage Billie and if and when she wants to see me again she can or go to a final hearing where I wouldn’t be allowed to bring evidence or question either sw or ex so pretty much no option.

I will love my little girl from afar and hope that one day she comes to me so I can explain my side. Whilst this may not be the best option I just can’t put her through anymore. The abuse and pressure my ex puts on her which is enabled by the sw is to much now and I’d rather take that away from her than allow it to continue.

It’s the hardest decision I’ve ever had to make but I know deep down for my little girls happiness it’s the best one.

These people have destroyed my life and my little girls and I’ll never forgive them for that but karma will catch up with them eventually
 
I do not know if this is true, but I think I've heard that an order made by consent cannot be appealed. Even if it is true, I don't know if DB's order would be considered a 'consent order.'

It is shocking to be presented with such a ridiculous choice.
 
Resolute said:
I do not know if this is true, but I think I've heard that an order made by consent cannot be appealed. Even if it is true, I don't know if DB's order would be considered a 'consent order.'

It is shocking to be presented with such a ridiculous choice.
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Tbh I am not sure I will be appealing I need to think about it all as I’m not sure it’s what’s best for my daughter anymore.

The damage done by my ex already is so severe I’m not sure anymore if any further help would make any difference other than drive my little girl even further away than she already is.

Sadly at court I was given very little choice with what judge said and it was clear he disliked me and didn’t view me as a father in anyway shape or form.

If me declining a final hearing has put paid to any chance to appeal then so be it I’ll have to accept that but I kind of don’t know what else I could have said other than maybe I need to think about it but irrespective of anything judge had made his mind up long before today in fact I suspect from first hearing he already knew what he would do further down line.

Ash looked into him and by all accounts this isn’t a surprise and this judge very much sides with mothers pretty much every time so I was already on a losing route no matter what I said or did.

There is numerous red flags from both ex and sw and I have clear evidence of them colluding with each other but clearly judge did not care and had absolute disdain for me. I’m not alone in that though how many other loving fathers out there have lost there kids for nothing because judges social services and Cafcass just can’t look beyond the sexist view they all have. The biggest abusers are the professionals themselves but we’re a million miles away from ever seeing any real change. Fathers are classed as second class and not important to there kids and until that changes there will be many more like me that have there worlds ripped apart.
 
DB2021 said:
Hi all.

So sadly and heartbreakingly I can’t join the good news as I lost today.

Judge was horrific again and despite putting in interim order that he would revisit a guardian if there was no improvement he had no intentions of doing so.

He believed sw and ex implicitly and nothing I said was listened to or even taken into account.

I’m at the end of my fight as I can’t put my little girl through anymore I’ve only ever wanted her to have the best most loving life and having professionals and ex constantly at her is not that.

This system is so bad and so many loving fathers are removed from there kids life for absolutely no reason and I’m sadly a part of that statistic.

Judge gave me 2 options accept a no contact order but ex and professionals are to encourage Billie and if and when she wants to see me again she can or go to a final hearing where I wouldn’t be allowed to bring evidence or question either sw or ex so pretty much no option.

I will love my little girl from afar and hope that one day she comes to me so I can explain my side. Whilst this may not be the best option I just can’t put her through anymore. The abuse and pressure my ex puts on her which is enabled by the sw is to much now and I’d rather take that away from her than allow it to continue.

It’s the hardest decision I’ve ever had to make but I know deep down for my little girls happiness it’s the best one.

These people have destroyed my life and my little girls and I’ll never forgive them for that but karma will catch up with them eventually
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Don't give up the fight!!

Appeal! Appeal! Appeal!
 
I feel the same - an appeal would go to a circuit judge and it would be a different Judge. Resolute has a point though. If you agreed to accept a no contact order rather than go to a final hearing, then it might be considered a consent order. But I think you still have a case because you're appealing the Judge's decision - and the Judge's decision was to say either no contact, or a final hearing without evidence. I am sure there are points of law in that respect and they were awful choices. The latter is outrageous - preventing you submitting evidence. It was an unfair hearing - you weren't represented.

Also there was no consideration given to a Guardian being appointed and that had been mentioned in the previous order. I think you have a chance for grounds of appeal but would have to get some tips elsewhere to pass on to you as to what the grounds were officially.
 
DB it's well known that most social workers don't recognise parental alienation and social services make many mistakes leading to harm for children - Judges though should spot things and many do and would have not reacted like this. You need a different Judge. There wasn't even a section 7 was there?
 
DadLad said:
@DB2021 why was you refused to submit evidence at a final hearing?

Surely this isn't right or a fair hearing.
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The difficulty he had was the social worker was against him and supporting his ex. But agree - I can't see why you would be prevented from having evidence at a final hearing. That's a bit like saying - either accept no contact now, or no contact at a final hearing because I won't allow you to submit evidence.
 
You need a transcript of the hearing to appeal but a transcript can take a month or three months. That's ok though - you just put in the appeal application that the transcript is applied for. I think a transcript will help your case.
 
I'm absolutely shocked that a judge has completely refused any evidence and taken the ex's word for it.
 
Ash said:
You need a transcript of the hearing to appeal but a transcript can take a month or three months. That's ok though - you just put in the appeal application that the transcript is applied for. I think a transcript will help your case.
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My transcripts for 1hr FHDRA and half day interim hearing came through quickly. A week or so. But I badgered them from start to finish. Called several companies and asked about their process before deciding which one to use. Then called to push and get updates continually after I submitted the application. I'm sure there was an element of luck as well.
 
Ash said:
I feel the same - an appeal would go to a circuit judge and it would be a different Judge. Resolute has a point though. If you agreed to accept a no contact order rather than go to a final hearing, then it might be considered a consent order. But I think you still have a case because you're appealing the Judge's decision - and the Judge's decision was to say either no contact, or a final hearing without evidence. I am sure there are points of law in that respect and they were awful choices. The latter is outrageous - preventing you submitting evidence. It was an unfair hearing - you weren't represented.

Also there was no consideration given to a Guardian being appointed and that had been mentioned in the previous order. I think you have a chance for grounds of appeal but would have to get some tips elsewhere to pass on to you as to what the grounds were officially.
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The reality is even if I can appeal I don’t have the experience or the know how to do it.

I’m way out of my depth now and tbh I would probably mess it all up anyway.

There wasn’t any one else in the hearing other than me ex sw and judge so unless it was a recorded hearing then no idea how it was transcripted.

No there was no section 7 this time judge didn’t believe it was necessary and stood Cafcass down and left it to sw from beginning.

He didn’t give any reason as to why I couldnt submit evidence he just said he doesn’t feel it’s needed.
 
I think the reality was judge knew I wasnt represented and used that to walk all over me which I know happens all to often.

I had no idea how to counter any of it and just had to sit there and take it.

But it didn’t matter what I said or did today I lost before I even walked into the court room.

Sw spent plenty of time giving clerk her views to pass to judge beforehand
 
DB2021 said:
The reality is even if I can appeal I don’t have the experience or the know how to do it.

I’m way out of my depth now and tbh I would probably mess it all up anyway.

There wasn’t any one else in the hearing other than me ex sw and judge so unless it was a recorded hearing then no idea how it was transcripted.

No there was no section 7 this time judge didn’t believe it was necessary and stood Cafcass down and left it to sw from beginning.

He didn’t give any reason as to why I couldnt submit evidence he just said he doesn’t feel it’s needed.
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🫂
 
Today will have drained you DB so don't make any decisions just yet.

If you feel like giving up putting in an appeal means you have nothing to lose.

To just say whichever route you take means no contact, without a s7 is strong grounds of appeal.

"unjust because of a serious procedural or other irregularity in the proceedings in the lower court"
 
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