Guest viewing is limited
- You have a limited number of page views remaining
- 2 guest views remaining
- Register now to remove this limitation
Mother obstructive - how to get more time
- Thread starter Ash
- Start date
Where do I start. I have already travelled so far on this journey before finding your site and yet I am still struggling.
I have a very weak court order and my shift in work has recently changed. Mother continues to be obstructive and controlling and frustrates me by lack of communication. She continues to alienate me against the children and everyone she can. My life has been hell for a very long time, walking with my head down while shopping and so called friends and family no longer look at me let alone speak to me.
She hides behind the children and the order and continues to be clever while demanding more and more money. I have found much solace in the information your site has provided, but ultimately I still have very little contact with my children, who incidentally are scared to speak out because of their Mother’s reactions and they want to be with me.
Question: How do I go about getting more time with my children taking the above into account?
Question: what type of things are helpful and will offer hope to show a judge in my process of trying to sort all this out if I do take mother back to court.
I have a very weak court order and my shift in work has recently changed. Mother continues to be obstructive and controlling and frustrates me by lack of communication. She continues to alienate me against the children and everyone she can. My life has been hell for a very long time, walking with my head down while shopping and so called friends and family no longer look at me let alone speak to me.
She hides behind the children and the order and continues to be clever while demanding more and more money. I have found much solace in the information your site has provided, but ultimately I still have very little contact with my children, who incidentally are scared to speak out because of their Mother’s reactions and they want to be with me.
Question: How do I go about getting more time with my children taking the above into account?
Question: what type of things are helpful and will offer hope to show a judge in my process of trying to sort all this out if I do take mother back to court.
Quick reply from me as I’m away this week 
A few questions - what does your order say? Is it defined or a “reasonable contact” order?
Sounds like you’re being blackmailed financially to see the kids. You only have to pay CM at the assessed rate. Although I also end up having to pay for all sorts extra sometimes. If that’s a reasonable agreement, fine. But if it’s blackmail to see the kids - not fine.
I’m sorry life is so hard. I am sure many Dads on here have had similar low points. Without knowing all the details I’d say - keep a profile in the community amd hold your head up. Make sure you’re registered with your kids Gp (there‘a a letter template on here). And school (template for that too). Go to parent consultations - ask for separate appointments to ex.
I know the feeling of kids wanting to come but scared of saying anything in case it angers the Mother.
How often are you getting to see them?
A few questions - what does your order say? Is it defined or a “reasonable contact” order?
Sounds like you’re being blackmailed financially to see the kids. You only have to pay CM at the assessed rate. Although I also end up having to pay for all sorts extra sometimes. If that’s a reasonable agreement, fine. But if it’s blackmail to see the kids - not fine.
I’m sorry life is so hard. I am sure many Dads on here have had similar low points. Without knowing all the details I’d say - keep a profile in the community amd hold your head up. Make sure you’re registered with your kids Gp (there‘a a letter template on here). And school (template for that too). Go to parent consultations - ask for separate appointments to ex.
I know the feeling of kids wanting to come but scared of saying anything in case it angers the Mother.
How often are you getting to see them?
The current order stipulates every other weekend from Friday to Sunday, video call on Wednesday evenings and on the Saturday they are not with me I get another video call. I get a week in the summer holidays and that’s it and that’s all Mother has given me. I’ve had an hour or two from tormentor time extra and I had an extra night last week. This has been the case since December.Quick reply from me as I’m away this week
A few questions - what does your order say? Is it defined or a “reasonable contact” order?
Sounds like you’re being blackmailed financially to see the kids. You only have to pay CM at the assessed rate. Although I also end up having to pay for all sorts extra sometimes. If that’s a reasonable agreement, fine. But if it’s blackmail to see the kids - not fine.
I’m sorry life is so hard. I am sure many Dads on here have had similar low points. Without knowing all the details I’d say - keep a profile in the community amd hold your head up. Make sure you’re registered with your kids Gp (there‘a a letter template on here). And school (template for that too). Go to parent consultations - ask for separate appointments to ex.
I know the feeling of kids wanting to come but scared of saying anything in case it angers the Mother.
How often are you getting to see them?
I am registered with the schools now and I had to fight for that.
I’ll seek the form for the GP’s, thanks for that I did not know about that. Mother keeps me out of everything and I only find out through my daughter.
With my shift change in the last two weeks my income has reduced and I am challenging that with the CMS. But Mother is using it as a bargaining chip and threatening me all the time to go for more money and she is being controlling at every junction possible.
I am trying to set up a meeting with Mother but she continues to ignore me and won’t confirm if I can see our children.
I’ve downloaded your Parenting Agreement and Successful negotiations - strategies for making agreements. I found all this to be very helpful and I have read through it all thoroughly.
If anyone can give me anymore advice on how to play this, I would very grateful.
Hi,
I think Ash's advice is sound.
you don't say how old your child is.
How would I approach this? I would use the welfare checklist as a guide, involving myself in all the checkboxes, ensuring evidence is produced in the process. Example areas from the checklist:
-Education (regularly email teacher to ask how child is doing, asking how you can be involved in term learning objectives)
-Mental health (being there emotionally for your child - by bed time stories to read that help children understand how to manage mental health)
-Physical health (photos of you and child cooking healthy food together, outdoor play together etc.
Once you have a year's worth of evidence, I would submit a C100 to vary your order, obviously going through the mediation route to show that you tried negotiating with the ex first.
It is a long slow process. But it will also bring you closer to your child.
I think Ash's advice is sound.
you don't say how old your child is.
How would I approach this? I would use the welfare checklist as a guide, involving myself in all the checkboxes, ensuring evidence is produced in the process. Example areas from the checklist:
-Education (regularly email teacher to ask how child is doing, asking how you can be involved in term learning objectives)
-Mental health (being there emotionally for your child - by bed time stories to read that help children understand how to manage mental health)
-Physical health (photos of you and child cooking healthy food together, outdoor play together etc.
Once you have a year's worth of evidence, I would submit a C100 to vary your order, obviously going through the mediation route to show that you tried negotiating with the ex first.
It is a long slow process. But it will also bring you closer to your child.
Hi, many thanks for getting on board and your helpful suggestions and answer. I be the schools on board at least after Social Services involvement after Mothers lies (sure that’s not new to anyone on here) they have been very supportive but keep saying to me to take the legal route. It’s building towards that that is the problem, but I’m getting there. She refuses to mediate, she refuses to answer any form of communication unless it’s on her terms and drags it all out as long as she can.
I have asked her once more to set up a meet to sort everything out and I wish to avoid court for the sake of the children. I keep asking for more time with the children now I have more time off work and she refuses on the grounds of it will effect her CMS support.
My children are 14 and 11 and were 11 1/2 8 1/2 when this all started after Mother left for new partner.
Guys I’ll keep you posted if she replies to final request to meet and any other advice I would be really grateful.
Thanks a million
Just having a breather from a days activities .
Ok - with their ages - it is perfectly sound and reasonable to vary the order. The argument being that as they are older, consecutive nights are better. The Mother will probably argue that they are old enough to decide for themselves (and maybe pressure them to choose to stay with her more).
Proud Dad’s advice is good - get a bit proactive behind the scenes - glad you got the school stuff sorted - your kids will know that snd it sends then the message that you’re involved and want to be.
Woth their ages though I think you need to do something now. Once the eldest is 15 to 16 the courts are unlikely to make new orders. That couple of years is important so they can think for themselves more by the time they’re 16.
It’s wrong that the number of nights is related to finances. What some Dads have said is - I will keep CM the same even though they are here for an extra night or two (if you can afford to). But tbh one extra night doesn’t make a huge amount of difference to the amount of CM - unless you’re a high earner!
You can have a family based arrangement that say is x amount cm - half the cost of school lunches and school trips (ie slightly less CM than calculated but going halves on other costs). If you can afford to.
If she has refused mediation I would go and have a MIAM. The mediator can invite her to mediation and if she says no you can apply to vary.
A lot can depend on the history as to how successful you are but one weeks holiday a year is a bit poor.
When was your last order made? Is your ex following it or doing things like organising sleepovers on your week-end?
Do you have any evidence (emails or texts eg) as to her deliberately being obstructive, or hostile? Was the social services thing when you applied to court last time or since then? Assume they found no issues?
My ex did that once (because I took son away for a fun treat one weekend!). Next thing I had social services on the phone who said they had interviewed child in school (first I knew about it). Came to see me - he had clearly been coached and thankfully she did spot that (although believed some of the other rubbish). Son had quite cleverly thrown in a few red herrings which undermined everything else he said! So even if they feel they have to say what ex wants, they can say the odd thing that shows they do want to see you. For example my son told SS he didn’t love me (ouch) but said he really loves one of my relatives (totally bizarre as he hardly knows them but he said it as a way of still being able to see me I think).
What happened in my situation was that backfired on her and I used the SS closure report as evidence for a better order.
So before saying - apply to vary and ask for more time it would help to know what happened when and what the outcome of social services was (it could work for you rather than against you).
Bit generally I’d say you should ask for half the holidays (and settle for two weeks in summer and half the other holidays as a bottom line. Plus Friday from school until Monday an school drop off and every Thursday night mid week. That would mean a long week end in your week ends (thurs to mon) then Thursday again. Downside to that is you go a week without seeing them till the following Thursday. If that’s not an option you could try asking for we’d thurs one week and Thursday the following week. That would be 6 nights out of 14.
I’m having similar issues but have a reasonably good order. In that now my son is a teen ex is trying to prevent holidays saying he wants to choose for himself (he also wants to come and is under pressure). Because my order is ok I get firm now snd then and she backs down thinking I might go back to court. But it’s a nightmare.
Teens are easily manipulated as well. The classic thing is the Mother says - child wants to choose for himself and is old enough (then uses guilt and rewards to get them to choose to stay with her). The Father says - kids need both their parents fully in their lives, particularly at this age wfeg they are growing up and need stability of parenting during this crucial time in their development.
So you need to have a strong confident argument that this is best for the kids - keep it child focused.
.Ok - with their ages - it is perfectly sound and reasonable to vary the order. The argument being that as they are older, consecutive nights are better. The Mother will probably argue that they are old enough to decide for themselves (and maybe pressure them to choose to stay with her more).
Proud Dad’s advice is good - get a bit proactive behind the scenes - glad you got the school stuff sorted - your kids will know that snd it sends then the message that you’re involved and want to be.
Woth their ages though I think you need to do something now. Once the eldest is 15 to 16 the courts are unlikely to make new orders. That couple of years is important so they can think for themselves more by the time they’re 16.
It’s wrong that the number of nights is related to finances. What some Dads have said is - I will keep CM the same even though they are here for an extra night or two (if you can afford to). But tbh one extra night doesn’t make a huge amount of difference to the amount of CM - unless you’re a high earner!
You can have a family based arrangement that say is x amount cm - half the cost of school lunches and school trips (ie slightly less CM than calculated but going halves on other costs). If you can afford to.
If she has refused mediation I would go and have a MIAM. The mediator can invite her to mediation and if she says no you can apply to vary.
A lot can depend on the history as to how successful you are but one weeks holiday a year is a bit poor.
When was your last order made? Is your ex following it or doing things like organising sleepovers on your week-end?
Do you have any evidence (emails or texts eg) as to her deliberately being obstructive, or hostile? Was the social services thing when you applied to court last time or since then? Assume they found no issues?
My ex did that once (because I took son away for a fun treat one weekend!). Next thing I had social services on the phone who said they had interviewed child in school (first I knew about it). Came to see me - he had clearly been coached and thankfully she did spot that (although believed some of the other rubbish). Son had quite cleverly thrown in a few red herrings which undermined everything else he said! So even if they feel they have to say what ex wants, they can say the odd thing that shows they do want to see you. For example my son told SS he didn’t love me (ouch) but said he really loves one of my relatives (totally bizarre as he hardly knows them but he said it as a way of still being able to see me I think).
What happened in my situation was that backfired on her and I used the SS closure report as evidence for a better order.
So before saying - apply to vary and ask for more time it would help to know what happened when and what the outcome of social services was (it could work for you rather than against you).
Bit generally I’d say you should ask for half the holidays (and settle for two weeks in summer and half the other holidays as a bottom line. Plus Friday from school until Monday an school drop off and every Thursday night mid week. That would mean a long week end in your week ends (thurs to mon) then Thursday again. Downside to that is you go a week without seeing them till the following Thursday. If that’s not an option you could try asking for we’d thurs one week and Thursday the following week. That would be 6 nights out of 14.
I’m having similar issues but have a reasonably good order. In that now my son is a teen ex is trying to prevent holidays saying he wants to choose for himself (he also wants to come and is under pressure). Because my order is ok I get firm now snd then and she backs down thinking I might go back to court. But it’s a nightmare.
Teens are easily manipulated as well. The classic thing is the Mother says - child wants to choose for himself and is old enough (then uses guilt and rewards to get them to choose to stay with her). The Father says - kids need both their parents fully in their lives, particularly at this age wfeg they are growing up and need stability of parenting during this crucial time in their development.
So you need to have a strong confident argument that this is best for the kids - keep it child focused.
Last edited:
In a way your ex could choose to agree to more time of it doesn’t affect CM. Rather than have a court application. But it depends how difficult she is and if she is the type who would try to alienate them more of you applied to court (this is what my ex has done before but son resisted and stayed loyal - mostly). Once the order was made she stopped alienating. It’s a real tough one - do you try - and see them go through a rough time. Or do you avoid that and watch them slowly become estranged. I think the former is the better option - neither are great. If your ex won’t agree to more time.
Assume you live close enough to have midweek nights.
Assume you live close enough to have midweek nights.
Hi Ash, first of all thanks and hope all went well today.
I’ll reply in order.
1. That is exactly what is going on and happened, She is manipulating the children.
2. when I’ve spoken to them about the schools onboard, they smile and have recently started sharing more with me. My Son is slower as his Mother keeps him young.
3. He’s 14yrs of age but about 11yrs in mind, it’s pitiful to see, but I’m working with him, slowly but I’m getting there.
4. I have been a high earner and my new shift puts me under pressure, hence the challenge. What I can’t do is find the ex and do everything for the children when they are with me. Again, she’s using that fir the kids to get bored and not what to go to Daddy. Very clever woman but my partner has been very supportive and she helps with days out ect ect.
5. I will try to get something sorted with the ex if she agrees to meeting. But to be honest there’s a lot more behind the senses going on. She’s in heavy debt and expecting my contribution foe the children to bail her out, that’s it loosely.
6. She had refused mediation throughout, so the meeting hopefully is the last chance. What is MIAM please?
7. The order was made December 23rd 2020 and she did everything in the beginning to block it and change it, but I dug in and made sure it was followed. The video calls are problematic, she does on occasions plan things and get the children to ask to call another time.
8. SS involvement was after she left and 7 1/2 months of having the children every weekend. Suddenly allegations against me and my Son was on his Mother’s side (He’s apologised since and told the truth) it was decided that there was no problem with me having the children back without supervision at the final hearing. We’ve got letters and emails showing total contempt and control, yes.
9. Similar thing, told the SS what Mother and Grandmother filled him with but then said, but I don’t want to get my Dad in trouble, please don’t hurt my Dad. On the back of that CPS throughout the allegation but SS kept going because Mother and SW knew one another outside from football years ago.
10. SS thing is over and gone now, that’s history.
11. My shift has now gone to a 4 on 4 off shift. I’m looking for joint custody so they live equally with both of us. But because of the CM she thinks she’ll miss out. So with your advice from earlier, if I play it clever and offer something reasonable and I’ll go from there. If she continues to refuse, then I’ve got something to show the judge that it about the money.
12. That’s basically where I am now. She keeps saying she can’t afford to go back to court and wants more money. Uses the children to say they want this and not that. They say different to me and I fight in foe them. They are torn and want to please both of us, but she won’t listen.
14. (The other number is unlucky
)
That is exactly what is happening and exactly what she is doing. Children think that the things she is doing and that I can’t afford are brilliant. But I do get this off them, we don’t do much with Mammy Dad, just stay in our rooms unless we do things that Mammy wants to do. We have fun with you and go places. They know where the love is and I’ll just keep plugging away. But the fact that she doesn’t want to go back to court tells me that she is a little unsure the way this will go. She thought that I would have given up by now and the kids would have grown bored of me. But o still and the children do, want more time.
15. It’s always been about the children for me and always remain that way. She focuses on the past and negative, I focus on the children and the future. That is what scares her, because I won’t back down and she struggles with not having control when the children are with me. For example, insisting on I tell her where I am taking the children and holiday and who is going.
16. So to be clear then Ash, stay strong, stay focused, be reasonable, ask politely and be firm in what I expect. Make no bones, if we don’t sort it, we go back to court.
Again, thanks for all your advice and I hope some of my replies help others.
I’ll reply in order.
1. That is exactly what is going on and happened, She is manipulating the children.
2. when I’ve spoken to them about the schools onboard, they smile and have recently started sharing more with me. My Son is slower as his Mother keeps him young.
3. He’s 14yrs of age but about 11yrs in mind, it’s pitiful to see, but I’m working with him, slowly but I’m getting there.
4. I have been a high earner and my new shift puts me under pressure, hence the challenge. What I can’t do is find the ex and do everything for the children when they are with me. Again, she’s using that fir the kids to get bored and not what to go to Daddy. Very clever woman but my partner has been very supportive and she helps with days out ect ect.
5. I will try to get something sorted with the ex if she agrees to meeting. But to be honest there’s a lot more behind the senses going on. She’s in heavy debt and expecting my contribution foe the children to bail her out, that’s it loosely.
6. She had refused mediation throughout, so the meeting hopefully is the last chance. What is MIAM please?
7. The order was made December 23rd 2020 and she did everything in the beginning to block it and change it, but I dug in and made sure it was followed. The video calls are problematic, she does on occasions plan things and get the children to ask to call another time.
8. SS involvement was after she left and 7 1/2 months of having the children every weekend. Suddenly allegations against me and my Son was on his Mother’s side (He’s apologised since and told the truth) it was decided that there was no problem with me having the children back without supervision at the final hearing. We’ve got letters and emails showing total contempt and control, yes.
9. Similar thing, told the SS what Mother and Grandmother filled him with but then said, but I don’t want to get my Dad in trouble, please don’t hurt my Dad. On the back of that CPS throughout the allegation but SS kept going because Mother and SW knew one another outside from football years ago.
10. SS thing is over and gone now, that’s history.
11. My shift has now gone to a 4 on 4 off shift. I’m looking for joint custody so they live equally with both of us. But because of the CM she thinks she’ll miss out. So with your advice from earlier, if I play it clever and offer something reasonable and I’ll go from there. If she continues to refuse, then I’ve got something to show the judge that it about the money.
12. That’s basically where I am now. She keeps saying she can’t afford to go back to court and wants more money. Uses the children to say they want this and not that. They say different to me and I fight in foe them. They are torn and want to please both of us, but she won’t listen.
14. (The other number is unlucky
)That is exactly what is happening and exactly what she is doing. Children think that the things she is doing and that I can’t afford are brilliant. But I do get this off them, we don’t do much with Mammy Dad, just stay in our rooms unless we do things that Mammy wants to do. We have fun with you and go places. They know where the love is and I’ll just keep plugging away. But the fact that she doesn’t want to go back to court tells me that she is a little unsure the way this will go. She thought that I would have given up by now and the kids would have grown bored of me. But o still and the children do, want more time.
15. It’s always been about the children for me and always remain that way. She focuses on the past and negative, I focus on the children and the future. That is what scares her, because I won’t back down and she struggles with not having control when the children are with me. For example, insisting on I tell her where I am taking the children and holiday and who is going.
16. So to be clear then Ash, stay strong, stay focused, be reasonable, ask politely and be firm in what I expect. Make no bones, if we don’t sort it, we go back to court.
Again, thanks for all your advice and I hope some of my replies help others.
I have seen so many fathers go through the estranged course and for me that is not an option because she is a total manipulative person and there is family history of it too, they are great at it to be fair. They have gone through so much already and I have been their rock and love throughout. I’m going to keep going, educating them along the way ( positive education and not running their Mother down) explaining it all to them in as child friendly way as I can and have up to now. She’s doing the alienation thing all the time, but I explain thing to them and they get it, they won’t to be with me and they know she’s blocking it, they tell me that. Glad it’s worked mostly to your advantage with your boy and I hope it continues, honestly.
Estrangement is not an option
Growth, love and education is for me.
If your last order was December 2020 that’s only about 6 months ago. Tricky as usually they prefer of it’s been at least a year since the last application - but your kids are growing up fast.
How were the arrangements for the last order reached? Was it Cafcass recommendation or consent order (you mentioned ex wouldn’t agree to some things).
I don’t think you would get 50/50 at this stage with an existing pattern for some time. You might get 5 or 6 nights a fortnight and half the holidays and I’d ask for it to be shared care/lives with both parents. On the basis that the ex is frustrating contact and you feel your children need both parents and both families fully involved in their lives, plus certainty and protection from being caught in the middle.
A MIAM is the first mediation appointment you go to on your own. Mediation, Information and Assessment meeting. You have to have had a MIAM before applying for variation, even if mediation didn’t continue. After that first appointment, when you’ve told the mediator what the issues are, the mediator contacts your ex snd invites her to the next session. If she declines then you get signed off mediation. You need that sign off to apply to court - the sign off form is a page from the C100 application form and you substitute that page with the signed version the mediator gives you.
The trouble is most exes don’t want to go - a) because it costs money b) because they have no need and are getting their own way.
I’d also email her when the mediator invites her briefly and politely saying you wish to discuss varying the arrangements as your shifts are changing and you feel the children would benefit from a schedule with both parents, more suited to their age now they are older and will she discuss this at mediation with you.
Don’t give away too much at this stage - if you say - longer weekends or more holidays she may try and turn the kids against that idea.
But the email is also evidence that you tried to resolve things before applying to court again.
How were the arrangements for the last order reached? Was it Cafcass recommendation or consent order (you mentioned ex wouldn’t agree to some things).
I don’t think you would get 50/50 at this stage with an existing pattern for some time. You might get 5 or 6 nights a fortnight and half the holidays and I’d ask for it to be shared care/lives with both parents. On the basis that the ex is frustrating contact and you feel your children need both parents and both families fully involved in their lives, plus certainty and protection from being caught in the middle.
A MIAM is the first mediation appointment you go to on your own. Mediation, Information and Assessment meeting. You have to have had a MIAM before applying for variation, even if mediation didn’t continue. After that first appointment, when you’ve told the mediator what the issues are, the mediator contacts your ex snd invites her to the next session. If she declines then you get signed off mediation. You need that sign off to apply to court - the sign off form is a page from the C100 application form and you substitute that page with the signed version the mediator gives you.
The trouble is most exes don’t want to go - a) because it costs money b) because they have no need and are getting their own way.
I’d also email her when the mediator invites her briefly and politely saying you wish to discuss varying the arrangements as your shifts are changing and you feel the children would benefit from a schedule with both parents, more suited to their age now they are older and will she discuss this at mediation with you.
Don’t give away too much at this stage - if you say - longer weekends or more holidays she may try and turn the kids against that idea.
But the email is also evidence that you tried to resolve things before applying to court again.
Hi Ash
Yet again more great advice in here, thanks.
Tried mediation before and she didn’t turn up and I got signed off. Hoping that I don’t have to do this again. What I do have is letters and emails showing her continued contempt and refusal to answer in a timely fashion. When she does answer, it’s always negative and running me down.
At the moment I get 2 night a fortnight or 1 night a week, to go to 5 or 6 nights a fortnight would be a God send and was about the figure I was aiming for, so reading that is good news.
I am aware thanks to the information on your site to keep my cards close. However, I have always made it clear that I want joint custody or shared parenting at least. So she is aware of this, it’s just a case of how much she will give now without having to go back to court.
I don’t thing it’s unreasonable to ask that when I am off work and available that the children are in my care. They would have an equal relationship with both parents and surely this can only be beneficial for the children.
The only reason that the ex will not allow this is the money CMS and she keeps arguing that the children are in a routine and don’t want to come.
On the upside, I have them for 8 nights together the end of this week and next week and I am really looking forward to it as are they. I am hoping that this will help my Son particularly to speak out. Alas we can only hope
Thanks again and I will keep you and all up to date with it all.
Thanks
Although it is s**t to link money with the time the kids live with you (almost pay as you go!), can you not say to the ex that the level of CMS won't change (if you can afford it). If it is the means to an end, maybe you could consider this.