Light at the end of the tunnel

[blindex]

My ex took my son and daughter from me over a year ago and started court proceedings with allegations of domestic abuse. Apologies for the long post. Here is the chronology

• After the first hearing I was able to see them again after six months in a contact centre
• The judge them progressed to unsupervised contact once a week (leading to two overnights contacts), fact finding hearing was deemed not necessary.
• Another hearing and it was progressed to twice a week (no overnights, mother made false allegations)
• Mother appealed against not having a FFH and lost it
• Cafcass produced the section 7 report. Despite not having a FFH, she treated the allegations as fact and ruled out my shared care proposals. She proposed that contact stayed the same for the next six months, and then progressed slowly to overnight.
• Had a DRA yesterday to address section 7. I produced a statement of hope and love and mother a statement of hate and pettiness. I wrote to the mother to end proceedings at the DRA

DRA results

• Mother proposed that interim contact remained the same for the next 6 months. Then progressed to only 3 night overnights as final order (1 overnight in one week, 2 in another). She should have all the summer holidays bar one week, etc
• Judge ignored the Cafcass recommendations
• Overnight contact to start immediately progressively (which I'm fine because it is a steep progression and I think it is in the best interest of the children anyway)
• Holidays to be shared equally
• Long term arrangements: one overnight stay midweek, followed by a Friday to Monday the next
• After the Cafcass report, I dropped the 50/50 shared care to two overnight mid week, to Thur/Monday the next. As a compromise during the hearing I accepted a Fri/Monday instead with two overnight mid week
• So we are now going to the Final Hearing before the same judge with just two issues: I want a shared care 'Lives With' order and an additional midweek overnight
• The judge proposed that since she ignored the bulk of Cafcass recommendations, there is no need to cross examine her, or the parents. Therefore she will resolve the issues based on submissions alone and that will be a much short hearing which is great because it can be listed much sooner and legal costs are substantially lower.
• The judge already indicated at the beginning of the DRA that she's very much in favour of Lives With order because it sends the right message. My barrister reckons that I'll will not get the extra overnight midweek contact, but will succeed in the Lives With order in the final hearing

I could have stuck to my guns and gone for a 50/50 shared care or nothing, but that would meant possibly a wait of five months for a full final hearing to be listed and given the mother more chance for mud-sliding and delay tactics.

To me this is a bittersweet moment, I'm very happy to have a clear framework in place to end this and a good final order within grasp. At the same deeply sad for my ex stupidity and how she degraded herself in the process... She is at the end of the day the mother of our children and they deserve better...

Thanks for everybody in the forum, the help and support I found here is priceless

 

[uzzy41]

Wow amazing ,

Yours went pretty quick , congratulations

 

[blindex]

Wow amazing ,

Yours went pretty quick , congratulations

not sure about that, It's been over a year now since all this bs started...

 

[uzzy41]

It seems like it like 12-18 months , the time line is just stupid

 

[Ash]

That is great news. I agree getting the "lives with both" is the most important thing. I hope you will get the extra night as well. Would that make it 6/14? I am sure you and your barrister can make a good case for that in his/her skeleton argument, case law and your final statement.

Hope you do a draft order for final hearing as well and make sure it includes to and from school pickups and dropoffs

 

[Kyle]

What I admire the most about this is your apparent steadfast and judicious approach to reaching a clear framework and a good final order within your grasp. Attrition is a very important tactic to any war! Especially a war of wits over our kids.

Attrition; noun - "the process of reducing something's strength or effectiveness through sustained pressure."

Never give up!

 

[blindex]

That is great news. I agree getting the "lives with both" is the most important thing. I hope you will get the extra night as well. Would that make it 6/14? I am sure you and your barrister can make a good case for that in his/her skeleton argument, case law and your final statement.

Hope you do a draft order for final hearing as well and make sure it includes to and from school pickups and dropoffs

Thanks, we have an order agreed in the DRA so there is no chance of the ex going back on it. Your are absolutely right regarding handovers/pickups. It is all done through the school and during term time I will have no contact with the ex. The order now says that term time handover is at the end of the school day (whatever that may be).

I cannot thank you guys enough in this forum for the support and advice.

 

[uzzy41]

Sorry guys to ask this I’ve never heard “ lives with both”

 

[blindex]

What I admire the most about this is your apparent steadfast and judicious approach to reaching a clear framework and a good final order within your grasp. Attrition is a very important tactic to any war! Especially a war of wits over our kids.

Attrition; noun - "the process of reducing something's strength or effectiveness through sustained pressure."

Never give up!

'The truth gleams the more you handle it'

Now 'luckily' for me I am dealing with District Judges, and they saw straight through my ex statements of hate... but as Ash said you have to go through the hoops....

I had a terrible Cafcass report who recommended that contact stayed the same for the next six months and then progressed to 1 or 2 overnights after that very slowly. I challenged the report because she treated the allegations as fact when the judges determined that a FFH wasn't necessary in my case.

So we are at the DRA on Friday, the ex makes her submission that contact should stay the same for the next 6 months etc,

The judge then turns around and say "you will have a very difficult task convincing me that overnight contact cannot start straight away. The children have expressed numerous times that they want contact to progress including overnight, and they must be feeling pretty horrible right now that the adults taking care of them are not listening to them and respecting their wishes'.

She then tells the ex that she will stop the hearing and by the time we are back we better have an agreement by then...

So it went downhill for her at that point and luckily her barrister was able to knock some sense out of her.

Now I did compromise too, I went from 50/50 initially, prior to the DRA I had kept two nights midweek contact and Thur/Monday. During negotiations I stuck to the midweek contact to two nights but dropped one night to Fri/Monday at the end of the DRA.

The judge also simplified my life for the final hearing. Since she ignored the Cafcass recommendations there won't be a need to cross-examine the officer or anyone else. That means that the session can be listed much sooner because it is a short hearing just based on submissions.

I think I'll be before the same judge and she already indicated that she sees a 'Lives With' order as the right thing to do. So hopefully I'll get the 'Lives With' order and the extra night mid week.

 

[Ash]

A good Judge can make a big difference. Re the order saying changeover is at the end of the school day - if your ex is anything like mine she will play games if child leaves school early for any reason - eg school finishes early after a school trip or child goes home early because unwell etc (when it's not the end of the school day). You can't cover everything and hopefully those instances would be rare. I tried to have my order wording "from 9am to 9am" so the school day was included (as per a schedule recommendation on the custody exchange website) but my solicitor refused to do that saying "we don't do that". We fiddled about with the wording for pick up after school. In hindsight I would have it "from the time child leaves school". If you can. Mine had from school drop off time - afterwards my ex argued that drop off time was not the time the school day starts and would turn up and talk to him as I dropped him off! If you have an ex like that, pre-empt any minor loopholes!

 

[Ash]

Sorry guys to ask this I’ve never heard “ lives with both”

That is what used to be called "shared residence" or "joint residence". What used to be "residence" is now "lives with", what used to be "contact" is now "spends time with". If the child lives with the Mother she is the "parent with care". It shouldn't make any difference but psychologically there is a power imbalance and some exes will also misuse the "parent with care" status (eg by telling the school they mustn't allow you to do various things). That is a reason to have "lives with both parents". You are both the "parent with care" and fully equal. Technically you're equal anyway as both have PR, and if an order is well defined, school needs to accept that. BUT - schools can't "enforce" orders. Hence Mothers can pull the "parent with care" thing at times.

The only other main difference is it means the Dad doesn't need the Mother's consent to go abroad on holiday - either can go abroad for up to 28 days a year (within their own court ordered time). If it is "lives with" Mother and "spends time with" Dad - then ex doesn't need your consent to go abroad, but you need hers. If she won't give it, then it requires a specific issues application.

 

[blindex]

A good Judge can make a big difference. Re the order saying changeover is at the end of the school day - if your ex is anything like mine she will play games if child leaves school early for any reason - eg school finishes early after a school trip or child goes home early because unwell etc (when it's not the end of the school day). You can't cover everything and hopefully those instances would be rare. I tried to have my order wording "from 9am to 9am" so the school day was included (as per a schedule recommendation on the custody exchange website) but my solicitor refused to do that saying "we don't do that". We fiddled about with the wording for pick up after school. In hindsight I would have it "from the time child leaves school". If you can. Mine had from school drop off time - afterwards my ex argued that drop off time was not the time the school day starts and would turn up and talk to him as I dropped him off! If you have an ex like that, pre-empt any minor loopholes!

I hope it won't come to that. I have not seen the draft order yet but it should say 'collection from school'