Final Hearing Result

[Flipsider]

Hello All,

My nightmare began December 2022 and finally concluded last week. Judge gave me all that I asked for, lives with both parents and equal contact time which includes half terms and summer and Xmas holiday. My piece of advice to you is tell the truth and never even try to bend it. It also helps when you have Cafcass and contact centre reports backing you up. Ex was grilled by the court appointed QLR (qualified legal representative) I wasn’t allowed to question her myself due to allegations of DA but never mind. She was on the stand for 1.5 hrs as she keeps tripping herself and contradicting her stories, she also showed signs of being annoyed with the questions. I was questioned for half hour as her barrister couldn’t trip me up and I just told the truth. To all you guys still fighting out there, carry on and never give up. I was LIP and I won, well the children won.

Goodluck!

 

[Resolute]

Congratulations!

Enjoy the outcome of your victory.

Inspirational.

 

[Flipsider]

Congratulations!

Enjoy the outcome of your victory.

Inspirational.

Thank you so much pal, btw the court saw what my ex’s true colours when she was on the stand. A controlling, self centred person. She is still trying to exert her control over me thru her solicitors. Judge told us to agree on how to co parent and I just received a draft copy of the order with a very detailed recitals which was basically how she wants me to parent our children. I saw a post where Ash warned about agreeing to such detailed recitals. Time to put my thinking cap back on or I can just tell her solicitor to stuff it and let the judges decide. What do you think? Cheers!

 

[Ash]

Sounds like her Solicitor trying to get the order to be to ex's benefit. Were those recitals agreed at court on the day? If not then you can say - this was not what was agreed at court on the day. Another guy had issues with incorrect order wording and wrote to the court with his own order wording, based on what had been decided at court. His ex's solicitor argued back and wrote to the court, but the Legal Adviser found in his favour and corrected the order wording.

 

[Resolute]

Thank you so much pal, btw the court saw what my ex’s true colours when she was on the stand. A controlling, self centred person. She is still trying to exert her control over me thru her solicitors. Judge told us to agree on how to co parent and I just received a draft copy of the order with a very detailed recitals which was basically how she wants me to parent our children. I saw a post where Ash warned about agreeing to such detailed recitals. Time to put my thinking cap back on or I can just tell her solicitor to stuff it and let the judges decide. What do you think? Cheers!

This is what I see as the major disadvantage to being unrepresented.

Was the court copied when you were sent the draft?

Are the recitals things that you agreed to in the hearing?

Have you been given a deadline by which to comment on the draft?

Are any of the recitals tolerable?

Sorry to ask so many questions. In my view, you are in an extremely delicate situation.

If you leave it to the judge to decide. It needs to be the court writing the order. Or, you need to know for certain that the points you contest are highlighted and your comments are provided with the draft.

Having been in your position on a number of occasions. I cannot see a catch all answer.

EDIT
Sorry, yet another question. You said judges. Was it a judge or magistrates?

 

[Ash]

I was in a similar situation once and I think it needs nipping in the bud if possible if the order wording isn't as it should be. The example I mentioned was one thing that worked.

The main thing is they can't change the fact it's an equal shared care order, regardless of any recitals (although there are some you definitely wouldn't want). Another trick they try is how they word the time so it isn't actually 50/50 (ie do your times from and to school and then have a clause saying school day time is with ex or something).

 

[Resolute]

I was in a similar situation once and I think it needs nipping in the bud if possible if the order wording isn't as it should be. The example I mentioned was one thing that worked.

Ash is right. If there is a way of outright rejecting the draft, you should.

In one of my hearings the judge refused to share his email with me and told me I can only correspond with my ex's barrister.

The last email I sent to a family court gave an auto-response saying they aim to get back to me within 35 weeks

If you have a legal advisor and this was heard by magistrates. You are in a slightly stronger position. They are more likely to say: "if you cannot agree, I will write the order."

 

[Flipsider]

Hello Ash and Res, sorry it was the magistrate and not the judge. Basically magistrate pass judgement and gave us copy of the reasons behind the judgement. Then they asked us to iron out the details in regards on how we set out boundaries for the children it also helps to point out that my daughter was diagnosed with ADHD, so will be needing a bit of consistency between us parents to have a regular routine. I have no issues with this at all as I agree to a regular consistent routine for her, my issue is how in her draft it doesn’t make much wiggle room to parallel parent our children. Judge agrees that we have two different style of parenting. If I agree to all of what the draft states I’m worried that there will come a time that it might get breached which gives her an excuse to make more allegations and the nightmare starts anew

 

[Flipsider]

Tbh, I’m more keen on rejecting the draft and just let the magistrate decide for us. No deadline set and no recitals was agreed in court. I’ll have Ash or perhaps you Res to have a read over and tell me if it’s at all reasonable. I can send you excerpts of it if you want

 

[Ash]

Then they asked us to iron out the details in regards on how we set out boundaries for the children

So if you don't agree with a degree of micromanaging via recitals you could submit your own version to ex solicitor and if they don't agree, send it to the court. If it was Magistrates then presumably there was a legal adviser. Have you got the Magistrates reasons yet, as they should partly dictate what's in the order.

 

[Resolute]

Could you start by working out everything you can accept?

Next step would be to reword the stuff you can almost accept.

Then give a child centred reason to have flexibility on things you think do not need to be regimented.

Finally, cave in on a couple of point that you disagree with. Make sure they are things which could not easily be used against you.

Ultimately, I would prefer to have recitals I do not like than clauses in the order I disagree with.

 

[Flipsider]

So if you don't agree with a degree of micromanaging via recitals you could submit your own version to ex solicitor and if they don't agree, send it to the court. If it was Magistrates then presumably there was a legal adviser. Have you got the Magistrates reasons yet, as they should partly dictate what's in the order.

I’ll send you excerpts from the
Magistrates reasons tomorrow if that’s ok. Basically magistrate is giving us a freehand to agree to cooperate for the sake of the children,

 

[Flipsider]

Could you start by working out everything you can accept?

Next step would be to reword the stuff you can almost accept.

Then give a child centred reason to have flexibility on things you think do not need to be regimented.

Finally, cave in on a couple of point that you disagree with. Make sure they are things which could not easily be used against you.

Ultimately, I would prefer to have recitals I do not like than clauses in the order I disagree with.

Thank you so much for your sound advice. I will need to decide on as to how to proceed.

 

[Flipsider]

One thing that gets me is she wanted to have our children for Xmas again this year. I told her that I never seen or spent. Mas with the children for 2 years and yet she wants them again this year, was I being unreasonable?

 

[Resolute]

One thing that gets me is she wanted to have our children for Xmas again this year. I told her that I never seen or spent. Mas with the children for 2 years and yet she wants them again this year, was I being unreasonable?

If you can have a totally robust alternation and tight arrangements for 50/50 holiday sharing from here on. I would make whatever short term sacrifices you need to make

BUT

This sounds like an intrusion on the judgment made in court today. Recitals only apply to issues that were not decided by the court.

 

[Resolute]

Tbh, I’m more keen on rejecting the draft and just let the magistrate decide for us. No deadline set and no recitals was agreed in court. I’ll have Ash or perhaps you Res to have a read over and tell me if it’s at all reasonable. I can send you excerpts of it if you want

I will always defer to Ash's much greater experience. If you would like to see my comments as well. Very happy to have a look.

Why not start a 3 way conversation?

 

[Ash]

With a 50/50 order Christmas should alternate. I think if you haven't had them at Christmas for two years you should have them this year. It sounds like you might be having some correspondence with her Solicitors over various agreements (or non agreements).

The main thing is the order wording needs to be clear and watertight. If they're trying to make it vague and woolly you'd need the court to step in.

 

[DadLad]

Hello All,

My nightmare began December 2022 and finally concluded last week. Judge gave me all that I asked for, lives with both parents and equal contact time which includes half terms and summer and Xmas holiday. My piece of advice to you is tell the truth and never even try to bend it. It also helps when you have Cafcass and contact centre reports backing you up. Ex was grilled by the court appointed QLR (qualified legal representative) I wasn’t allowed to question her myself due to allegations of DA but never mind. She was on the stand for 1.5 hrs as she keeps tripping herself and contradicting her stories, she also showed signs of being annoyed with the questions. I was questioned for half hour as her barrister couldn’t trip me up and I just told the truth. To all you guys still fighting out there, carry on and never give up. I was LIP and I won, well the children won.

Goodluck!

Reading this gives me hope!!

I had a barrister for my FHDRA.

I am 2 weeks away from my DRA but I am LIP for this.

What happened with the DA allegations in regards to Cafcass? Did they recommend no contact and a FF?