court date come through 6th of March

[Alocacoc]

Hi


my enforcement order has come through for 6th of March

ive claimed psychological control of daughter and sent in evidence.

Cafcass have got involved already and have been really efficient. there calling me on the 1st of february for a 40 minute call

I want to apply for 90 days no contact from mom, is this a form I need to fill in before court?

cheers

 

[Peanut 21]

Hmm, I'm not sure how likely it'll be you'll get that ordered tbh. I don't want to come across negative, just realistic.

Using the Child welfare checklist you need a really really good reason and solid evidence to prove your daughter is being harmed, before she'd be removed from her mothers care.

You will need proof from an expert (psychologist) confirming a particular issue before they'd even consider changing residency.

Remind us, is your daughter a teenager?

There's also the issue with older kids that it's harder to enforce an order and they might try to run away if they get told to move to the other parent.

 

[Alocacoc]

Hmm, I'm not sure how likely it'll be you'll get that ordered tbh. I don't want to come across negative, just realistic.

Using the Child welfare checklist you need a really really good reason and solid evidence to prove your daughter is being harmed, before she'd be removed from her mothers care.

You will need proof from an expert (psychologist) confirming a particular issue before they'd even consider changing residency.

Remind us, is your daughter a teenager?

There's also the issue with older kids that it's harder to enforce an order and they might try to run away if they get told to move to the other parent.

hi yes shes 15 now was 14 when it started

 

[Peanut 21]

Obviously I'm not a legal or social services expert so don't take my word as gospel but I don't think applying to have your daughter removed from her mother for 90 days will be approved.

Court Orders generally run out when the child is 16 but their wishes and feelings get taken more into account from 12-13 onwards.

I think you just need to focus on the enforcement hearing and going with the process with cafcass at the moment.

Change of residence orders are quite rare and from what I've read are ordered when cases get to the high court. Again, don't quote me on that.
I'll try and find the cases I've seen online to back that up.

 

[Peanut 21]

Court orders change of residence in parental alienation case

Transferring residence is an extremely difficult issue, and anyone interested in it would do well to read the full judgment.

www.stowefamilylaw.co.uk

Here's a good example.

 

[Peanut 21]

Would be great if the dad from this case knew about thus forum and told us his story.

 

[Alocacoc]

how do I apply for the above? I have court on the 6th March the receptionist said i can still send the forms in

thanks

 

[Ash]

It's quite a rare thing, change of "residency" (custody isn't a term any more). You would need very solid evidence from Social Services that they felt the Mother was unfit/unsafe. Without that you would be see as not positive about co parenting, and trying to take the child away from the Mother and it would be seen as a hostile action. Have you had legal advice on this? Or some other higher level professional report, like a psychologist report recommending child lived with you.

 

[Alocacoc]

It's quite a rare thing, change of "residency" (custody isn't a term any more). You would need very solid evidence from Social Services that they felt the Mother was unfit/unsafe. Without that you would be see as not positive about co parenting, and trying to take the child away from the Mother and it would be seen as a hostile action. Have you had legal advice on this? Or some other higher level professional report, like a psychologist report recommending child lived with you.

currently proving alienation, Cafcass have now gone to interview daughter. the only outcome from this is that She should come and live with me for 90 days no contact from mom, whilst mom has sanctions put in place. If judge gives me child back once a week, it simply isnt good enough, the mother will emesh the child within 3 months and she will cut me off again

 

[Ash]

As that what you're saying ideally should happen or what Cafcass have mentioned? How old is your daughter again? Teens isn't she? It would hinge on it being determined whether her expressed wishes are her own free will or not. The difficulty with alienation is proving it.

 

[Alocacoc]

As that what you're saying ideally should happen or what Cafcass have mentioned? How old is your daughter again? Teens isn't she? It would hinge on it being determined whether her expressed wishes are her own free will or not. The difficulty with alienation is proving it.

shes 15 cafcass got involved instantly. Mom has been diagnosing daughter with serious medical conditions and me as the instigator of said conditions. supplied medical records indicate no diagnosis of anything.


so which forms do you suggest I fill in, Ill take the flack if its the wrong thing to do.

 

[Ash]

I'm not quite clear. You have a hearing in March - from your existing application - is that right? Was it enforcement? What evidence do you have?

 

[Alocacoc]

I'm not quite clear. You have a hearing in March - from your existing application - is that right? Was it enforcement? What evidence do you have?

Its an enforcement order, Ive sent all my evidence to cafcass, but I want to make sure I'm organised, I dont want to end up at court and them say you should have filled in form XYZ.

at court on the 6th of march I want to make it clear they need to consider a period of no contact from mom, not 1 day a week visits to me, and mom walks out with total domination control

 

[Ash]

Did you send all your evidence with the C79 application as well? I believe you could submit a C2 application saying you wish the court to change your daughter's residence so she lives with you and has a period of time away from her Mother and then spends time with her - but you would be very hard pushed to get this accepted without backup from Cafcass. Have Cafcass spoken to you yet? Will you be using a barrister for the hearing? If so it could be an idea to have a consultation with them and they will advise you how to proceed.

 

[Alocacoc]

Did you send all your evidence with the C79 application as well? I believe you could submit a C2 application saying you wish the court to change your daughter's residence so she lives with you and has a period of time away from her Mother and then spends time with her - but you would be very hard pushed to get this accepted without backup from Cafcass. Have Cafcass spoken to you yet? Will you be using a barrister for the hearing? If so it could be an idea to have a consultation with them and they will advise you how to proceed.

Cafcass are coming to see me Monday, I will update you thank you

 

[Peanut 21]

I think it will be difficult to change residency with a 15 year old.
You'd need an expert opinion and/or evidence from social services, schools etc to prove she's unsafe with her mother.
Using the child welfare checklist you'd need to prove your daughter is at serious risk of harm to change residency.
I totally understand your situation as my partner is in the same boat.

 

[Peanut 21]

If you do apply for the 90 day residency, use the below points to argue your case.

The Welfare Checklist Criteria​

1. The ascertainable wishes and feelings of the child concerned (considered in the light of his age and understanding);​

The court are required to take the wishes and feelings of the child into consideration. It is not defined in law at which age the court will begin to listen to the child, but the court will tend to place more weight on a child’s wishes and feelings from the age of 11 or 12 onwards. However, it does depend on the individual circumstances of the child in question; The court will assess their maturity and understanding of the situation.
Ordinarily it will be the role of CAFCASS to speak to the child and ascertain their wishes and feelings. In exceptional circumstances the Judge may speak to the child themselves. It is important for the court to be satisfied that these are indeed the true wishes and feelings of the child and they are not mirroring the views of a parent. It is important to be aware that the wishes and feelings of the child are viewed in conjunction with other factors and will not wholly dictate the outcome.

2. his physical, emotional and educational needs;​

The court are required to consider the child’s short term and long term physical, emotional and educational needs. They will consider which parent is best placed to provide these to the child and this will usually be based on evidence that has been submitted to the court. Physical needs tend to be straightforward whereas emotional needs may require more investigation. A child’s needs will change as they become older and therefore the court must be satisfied that the parents can manage these changes and provide stability for the child at the same time.

3. the likely effect on him of any change in his circumstances;​

The court are required to consider the potential impact of any change in circumstances on the child. The court will often take a decision that will cause the least disruption to a child’s life. An example of this may be where the non-resident parent applies for residence of the child. The court will need to consider the potential impact that the change in residence would cause, i.e. change of school, change of social environment.

4. his age, sex, background and any characteristics of his which the court considers relevant;​

The court are required to consider the child’s age, cultural and religious background and other characteristics which are specific to the child and the wider family.

5. any harm which he has suffered or is at risk of suffering;​

The court will examine harm that the child has suffered and harm that the child is at risk of suffering in the future. Harm is defined as ‘‘ill treatment or the impairment of health or development”. The court will weigh up the potential risk to the child and issue an order which is reflective of this. The order could feasibly contain protective measures which are aimed at safeguarding the child. This particular criterion will require the court to examine allegations of domestic abuse.

6. how capable each of his parents, and any other person in relation to whom the court considers the question to be relevant, is of meeting his needs;​

The court will want to ensure that both parents are putting the child first and are able to meet all the child’s needs. This criterion will therefore require the court to consider the respective accommodation that both parents are able to provide and the extent to which both parents can meet the child’s needs. This will be case specific and therefore it will depend on the specific needs of the child and the abilities of the parent. There is no assumption that a mother is better placed to meet a child’s needs compared to the father.

7. the range of powers available to the court under this Act in the proceedings in question.​

The court will consider every option and can make a wide range of orders, even if they have not been applied for. For example, there may be a case determining contact but it emerges that the resident parent intends to go abroad on a permanent basis with the child without seeking the consent of the other parent with Parental Responsibility. The court may therefore think it is appropriate to grant a prohibited steps order preventing the moving parent from leaving the jurisdiction.

 

[Peanut 21]

Instead of putting another application, you could request the court put a change of residency clause in your position statement before the hearing.

 

[Ash]

Hi. I've merged this thread with your other thread as they are on the same topic.

 

[Ash]

Ok so you can't ask the court for 90 days away from the Mother and to live with you because of Parental Alienation - because only an expert can say that - if and when they have decided that the Mother is alienating your daughter. They don't like parents "diagnosing" alienation - because technically that is an allegation.

Your best bet is to get Cafcass onside with this when they come and see you. Don't start talking about parental alienation, just describe what has happened and how you know your daughter does not have the free will to say what she really wants or feels - and has no say in anything as that would mean disobeying her Mother. Say you are very concerned because your daughter has been very happy for x years coming to your family and home regularly, which is also her home, and even as a teenager she loved being there and was happy. You are very concerned for her emotional wellbeing with this sudden cut off and think she needs to spend a period of time with you, away from Mum - maybe a couple of weeks holiday.

The difficulty is always going to be that she is a teenager and Cafcass will think - you can't tell teenagers what to do. So the thing to get across is your concern that she is unable to disobey her Mother or use her own free will. You need to pick the right language to "describe" alienation without actually accusing it as a terminology.

Now a good Cafcass officer may decide it's alienation and recommend something like you're asking, but they may not. If they don't you can ask the court to order an Independent Social Worker report. They will ascertain it's Parental Alienation and you'll have the official evidence you need. An ISW is not free - you can expect to pay about £2,000 to £3,000 for the report - but you'll get your evidence. And it's a lot cheaper than a psychologists report.