Cafcass saying not recommending an order

[Busy2006]

Hi All.

My son has applied to the court to have his two children overnight, the youngest is 8 and the eldest is 12. He has contact every other weekend but his ex wont let them stay overnight, and she responded to the court saying they didn’t want to stay overnight. The cafcass worker has said after meeting with the children they have said they do want to stay, the youngest after she has been to her sports activity she wants to go to her dads, the eledest has said she wants to stay if she has no other activities going on.

My question is why would the sw not recommend an order and given his ex has refused overnight stays, how should this be addressed.

thanks

 

[Resolute]

Hi All.

My son has applied to the court to have his two children overnight, the youngest is 8 and the eldest is 12. He has contact every other weekend but his ex wont let them stay overnight, and she responded to the court saying they didn’t want to stay overnight. The cafcass worker has said after meeting with the children they have said they do want to stay, the youngest after she has been to her sports activity she wants to go to her dads, the eledest has said she wants to stay if she has no other activities going on.

My question is why would the sw not recommend an order and given his ex has refused overnight stays, how should this be addressed.

thanks

Was it in a Section 7 report that the Cafcass worker made a no order recommendation?

It is not up to Cafcass whether or not there is an order. It is a decision for the court. Cafcass recommendations are quite regularly ignored by the court, so it is not time to give up.

Your son needs to demonstrate to the court why an order is necessary in relation to the interests of the children.

Please fill out some more of the details for other members, more specific advice will follow.

 

[Roblox]

Sorry if I've misunderstood but based on your comments I would have thought an order would be appropriate and pretty sure court would support if ex digs her heels on as the behaviour sounds unreasonable.

 

[Ash]

As the others say, it would help to know a bit more. What stage proceedings are at etc. And whether this cafcass recommendation is part of their initial safeguarding letter, or part of a section 7.

That is complete xxxxx about staying over "if she doesn't have any activities". There is no reason a child can't have their activities when staying with you, just as when staying with their Mother, but Mothers can use activities as a reason to say the children are too busy. For example if he had an order that they spend every other week-end with him from Friday to Monday, and the eldest has a dance class on Saturday mornings, then he can take her to and from the dance class and be involved in that aspect of her life. If you want to go away one week-end though, you may need to say sorry but we'll have to miss dance class this week-end. The point being - on his time/in his care, he makes the arrangements with the kids. Generally though, their activities take some degree of priority.

Is this the first time he's applied to court? Or is there an existing order and he's applying for more time? Is he representing himself? I think a barrister would say to that argument above "so why shouldn't they stay overnight?" In other words - give me a good reason why not because it's normal. Cafcass take a 12 year old's wishes more seriously, but 12 year olds don't understand how parenting schedules work.

 

[Resolute]

My question is why would the sw not recommend an order?

Your specific question is difficult to answer, reasoning included in the Cafcass officer's report should shed light on why they took this view.

Try googling "No Order Principle" and reading about how it operates for child arrangements in England. Very basically, if an order would not do anything to benefit the children, it should not be made. Permutations of this principle are not always intuitive, so have a good read.

But, keep in mind that Cafcass do not have the power to make decisions, unless discretion is bestowed upon them by the court. Cafcass advise, Judges/Magistrates decide.

What should be done about this?

If there is a hearing coming up, your son needs to respectfully challenge the Cafcass officer's conclusion regarding an order. If the report/letter has errors/ommissions, these can be corrected prior to the hearing.

Next steps are not simple and must be measured carefully to your son's specific situation, so please fill in the details to whatever degree you feel able.

 

[Busy2006]

Hi,

thanks for the responses, S7 underway and cafcass has said they wont recommend an order. My son lives a distance away, so would be more difficult to get granddaughter back to do their activity. I think an order would be appropiate due to his ex always changing mind. First time at court

 

[Resolute]

Is there a good amount of time between completion of Section 7 and date of next hearing? If so, I would not jump to any conclusions. It seems unorthodox for the officer to tell parent what they plan in advance of the report, they should really make a decision after considering everything on balance.

If the court did not see room for an order, I think they'd have sent back to mediation rather than asking for S7.

 

[Busy2006]

About three weeks between s7 report and hearing, sw sent him the info about what the girls wanted and said she wasn’t going to be supporting an order and he has to reply to what the girls saod.

 

[Resolute]

At 8 and 12, with neither saying he has abused them, or even that they do not want to see him, this feels like it could be won.

When the report comes, go through it with a fine tooth comb and get anything wrong corrected. Then it is just a case of showing he can facilitate the activities in question.

Share the reasoning in report on here, you'll get a good steer on how to handle.

 

[MagicJ]

@Busy2006 apologies, how did the hearing go, did your son manage to get sight of the S7?