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DB2021

DB2021

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Hi Guys,

I am after any advice any of you can give me.

I have a court order for contact which had been going well up till recently but now my daughter refuses to come with me, I’ll explain a little bit below.

Contact order was made 11th Nov where my sister was to be there to help support me given I hadn’t had any time with my daughter alone since she was born due to ex wanting to control everything this was for 3 months which ended 11th Feb then contact was to be unsupervised.

For 10 weeks contact was amazing daughter loved coming was excited for things we had planned for school hols etc then 2 weeks before unsupervised contact was due to start she literally stopped wanting to come won’t speak to me and just tells me to shut up when I try and talk to her.

Last 2 days I’ve been to pick her up ex doesn’t even have her dressed daughter still in pjs and again refuses to come, her behaviour towards me has changed so dramatically in the space of a week from when I last had contact to now.

Ex offers no encouragement to our daughter when I arrive just says “you need to tell him you don’t want to go” daughter has also said to me a couple of times that things are being said at home.

I don’t find it a coincidence that this has all started before unsupervised was due to start.

I’m certain that my ex is causing this but would just like some advice of what to do?

I write everything down each time she hasn’t come etc but what is the next steps?

We have social services involved under child in need due to my mental health issues which are completely under control and there is no safeguarding concerns but when I raised my concerns to her she didn’t even acknowledge them just said I need to be patient etc.

Do I go back to court and raise them there?

I get the horrible feeling that I’m losing my little girl and the longer I leave things and don’t challenge it the worse things will become.

I still turn up on agreed days and will continue to do so as I want my little girl to see that I am consistent.

Any advice would be hugely appreciated.
 
Is it a Child Arrangements order for spends time with? If so and it says unsupervised to start x date, and it's not happening, then yes you need to go back to court. You apply to enforce the order on a C79 form - they are supposed to give you a hearing within 21 days - although it might take longer since covid but shouldn't be too much longer. The main difference between applying on a C100, is you can attach evidence to the enforcement application.

You list the breaches of the order (ie the times your daughter didn't come) and the important bit - explaining the situation - similar to what you've done above. Important to say that the ex is discouraging child coming and child is not dressed when you arrive.

This makes it very clear.

However before you do this, you are expected to try and resolve things with your ex in writing. However there is obviously nothing to resolve other than your ex manipulating your daughter not to come - which is bad for her. So send an email that is brief and formal and just send something like

"Dear Ex Name

I am asking you to comply with your obligations under the Child Arrangements order of x date, and to please ensure my daughter is dressed and available to collect on x date and that you inform her she is coming with me and that you encourage this. It is in our daughter's best interests to have a relationship with both parents. Please confirm x name will be available to collect at x time on x day. Kind regards, you"

This is technically a "letter before action" to give her chance to comply. Then go along at the next court ordered time. If your daughter doesn't come with you, then submit the C79 application asap.

We can help with the wording.
 
But before you do that, it's important to know if the time is actually ordered or just in recitals.
 
If it turns out that the order isn't enforceable, then it would need an application to vary instead of a C79 enforcement.
 
Definitely continue turning up. I was in a vaguely similar position, every time I brought a jiffy bag with me. It had a card inside with a simple loving message. I learnt to draw rainbows and unicorns so that I could decorate the envelopes by hand. Used to also do pictures of a little girl walking hand in hand with their dad. Made it all about stuff I knew she loves. A few cheep little toys from Asda or Lidl, two or three sweets - you can get tiny bags and fruit based stuff. You would need to get some paint pens and gel pens:



My little one still has very fond memories of those little packages. It is mum's job to make her ready, but in the meantime try to keep the link up and let the kid have fond memories associated with you.

Please share age of the child, ways of handling vary for a 4 year old and a 14 year old.
 
Hi guys,

It’s a child’s arrangement order for spends time with,

It’s states what time I have with her during term time and also what I’m to have during holidays etc day when she’s off for a week full week when she’s off for 2 and 2 full weeks during summer hols with another 2 weeks just my usual 2 days a week. Plus days for birthdays and Christmas.

Court order does state after 3 month initial period of contact with my sister there to support it is then to turn to unsupervised.

My daughter is 5 but I do love the idea of dropping off something each time for her, hardest part about that is she won’t even look at me and tells me to shut up when I try and talk to her at the door.

She also tried to hit me today with a toy she was holding, I think it’s just how dramatically her behaviour has changed towards me that worries me the most.
 
Just to add to the email that you advised to send.

Obviously during school term time my daughter is dressed and ready given she’s been at school but she just refuses to come.

It’s only this half term that when I’ve arrived she has been in her pjs I’m just mindful of wording the email correctly that’s all.
 
Is it not half term any more? If it is then the wording is still appropriate :)
 
That is not normal behaviour for a child - your ex is alienating. Or attempting to. But don't use that word in the C79 application. Just describe what is happening without using the words parental alienation - it will speak for itself.
 
DB2021 said:
Hi guys,

It’s a child’s arrangement order for spends time with,

It’s states what time I have with her during term time and also what I’m to have during holidays etc day when she’s off for a week full week when she’s off for 2 and 2 full weeks during summer hols with another 2 weeks just my usual 2 days a week. Plus days for birthdays and Christmas.

Court order does state after 3 month initial period of contact with my sister there to support it is then to turn to unsupervised.

My daughter is 5 but I do love the idea of dropping off something each time for her, hardest part about that is she won’t even look at me and tells me to shut up when I try and talk to her at the door.

She also tried to hit me today with a toy she was holding, I think it’s just how dramatically her behaviour has changed towards me that worries me the most.
Click to expand...

5 is ideal, she should be able to read her name and maybe simple stuff like 'love from dad.' Being handed a little package with her name on it in her favourite colour(s) and pictures of her favourite things, might distract enough to stop her hitting you. Even if she takes it and walks back in, when she is eating, colouring, playing with stuff in the package - you are there with her. I'm only talking about little trinkets to show love. Nothing that could be mistaken for bribery or attempting to buy her affection. Stuff you make is really good.

Kids are not stupid, she will know this does not fit with what mum is feeding her.

5 is an age where mum should definitely be able to take responsibility for making sure the child does what they are meant to do. She is not old enough to 'refuse', how will mum handle a 13 year old if she cannot get a 5 year old to do what they have to do?

You should not be at all pushy, you have to take it on the chin to avoid looking like you are the problem. I've always found it really helps to sit on the floor so we are at eye level, or the child is taller.

You could include a line in the letter asking mum to ensure the child is "emotionally ready for handover."
 
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Resolute said:
5 is ideal, she should be able to read her name and maybe simple stuff like 'love from dad.' Being handed a little package with her name on it in her favourite colour(s) and pictures of her favourite things, might distract enough to stop her hitting you. Even if she takes it and walks back in, when she is eating, colouring, playing with stuff in the package - you are there with her. I'm only talking about little trinkets to show love. Nothing that could be mistaken for bribery or attempting to buy her affection. Stuff you make is really good.

Kids are not stupid, she will know this does not fit with what mum is feeding her.

5 is an age where mum should definitely be able to take responsibility for making sure the child does what they are meant to do. She is not old enough to 'refuse', how will mum handle a 13 year old if she cannot get a 5 year old to do what they have to do?

You should not be at all pushy, you have to take it on the chin to avoid looking like you are the problem. I've always found it really helps to sit on the floor so we are at eye level, or the child is taller.

You could include a line in the letter asking mum to ensure the child is "emotionally ready for handover."
Click to expand...
Hi Resolute,

That does sound like a brilliant idea and something I will get on with straight away so I can take something to her tomorrow.

That’s the one thing that keeps me going is I know that I’ve done nothing for our daughter to think bad of me and that it’s all fake and implanted things that are causing her to behave this way.

Thank you so much for such great advice it’s very much appreciated.
 
Resolute said:
5 is ideal, she should be able to read her name and maybe simple stuff like 'love from dad.' Being handed a little package with her name on it in her favourite colour(s) and pictures of her favourite things, might distract enough to stop her hitting you. Even if she takes it and walks back in, when she is eating, colouring, playing with stuff in the package - you are there with her. I'm only talking about little trinkets to show love. Nothing that could be mistaken for bribery or attempting to buy her affection. Stuff you make is really good.

Kids are not stupid, she will know this does not fit with what mum is feeding her.

5 is an age where mum should definitely be able to take responsibility for making sure the child does what they are meant to do. She is not old enough to 'refuse', how will mum handle a 13 year old if she cannot get a 5 year old to do what they have to do?

You should not be at all pushy, you have to take it on the chin to avoid looking like you are the problem. I've always found it really helps to sit on the floor so we are at eye level, or the child is taller.

You could include a line in the letter asking mum to ensure the child is "emotionally ready for handover."
Click to expand...
Only just seen the other bit to this message.

I’m never pushy and will never force her to come I always ask why she doesn’t want to but never get an answer and I always go into my knees when I’m outside.

Sadly as soon as the door opens her mum says she’s said she’s not going and that’s it then when she goes and gets her I can hear her saying “you need to tell him your not going” and very quickly afterwards her mum says well say bye then and that’s it takes no more than 3 minutes from when I arrive to when I’m leaving.

I have made a little card and package for her for tomorrow, just has a little toy inside and a couple of bits of chocolate which I know she likes and I hand made the card such a brilliant idea, whether she takes it from me I’m not so sure but all I can do is try.

I just said in the card I love you and I miss you didn’t want to over do it.
 
Great that you have put something nice together for her.

Maybe try showing concern rather than asking her for an explanation. She might be compromised by trying to keep mum happy, she might not know why she doesn't want to come.

You look a little upset, can I help?

Can we sit here and chat for a bit?

Is there anywhere you'd really like to go? I can arrange for next time if you tell me.

Do you know how to get to the shop from here? Can you show me? I can wait if you need to get dressed.

Try to take the issue away from her having to make a big decision and give her a chance to act on a little impulse. Once she starts chatting with you, things might get easier. Giving her a chance to be in charge somehow might bring her along.

Fingers crossed for tomorrow.
 
Resolute said:
Great that you have put something nice together for her.

Maybe try showing concern rather than asking her for an explanation. She might be compromised by trying to keep mum happy, she might not know why she doesn't want to come.

You look a little upset, can I help?

Can we sit here and chat for a bit?

Is there anywhere you'd really like to go? I can arrange for next time if you tell me.

Do you know how to get to the shop from here? Can you show me? I can wait if you need to get dressed.

Try to take the issue away from her having to make a big decision and give her a chance to act on a little impulse. Once she starts chatting with you, things might get easier. Giving her a chance to be in charge somehow might bring her along.

Fingers crossed for tomorrow.
Click to expand...
I have tried a couple of those things before asking her if there is anywhere she would like go next time etc and can we sit and chat but she just tells me to shut up or ignores me completely.

But I do get maybe asking her why isn’t the best thing to do so I won’t from now on.

Definitely didn’t think of her feeling compromised by her Mam and given when i have asked on the rare occasion shes responded she has always said I don’t know so that makes a lot of sense.

I have everything crossed myself for tomorrow
 
Peanut 21 said:
Have you kept a diary for these incidents?
It's awful what her mother is doing.
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Hi Peanut21 yes I write everything down.

Sadly I always knew this would happen soon as court gave me what I deserved it was all she had left but she’s very very clever with how she does things but she doesn’t fool me.

Worst part is the damage they do to our children it’s unforgivable but I won’t stop fighting for her and trying to protect her
 
Yes it's awful the kids are used as weapons. My partner hasn't seen his daughter since last May. She refuses to see her dad. To us it's so obvious she's being brainwashed by her mother but you can't say that to anyone.
Have every sympathy with your situation.
 
Peanut 21 said:
Yes it's awful the kids are used as weapons. My partner hasn't seen his daughter since last May. She refuses to see her dad. To us it's so obvious she's being brainwashed by her mother but you can't say that to anyone.
Have every sympathy with your situation.
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I’m so so sorry to hear that it’s disgusting what people are allowed to get away with, our system is shocking and needs a complete overhaul.

Luckily for me I’ve caught it early and I won’t stop until I’m listened to.

At the very least I want to be able to show my little girl that I did everything I could.

I hope your partner gets the help he deserves and gets his daughter back
 
DB2021 said:
Hi Peanut21 yes I write everything down.

Sadly I always knew this would happen soon as court gave me what I deserved it was all she had left but she’s very very clever with how she does things but she doesn’t fool me.

Worst part is the damage they do to our children it’s unforgivable but I won’t stop fighting for her and trying to protect her
Click to expand...

"I don't know" and "I can't remember" are red flags to me. They seem to come up around times that mum has been trying to poison the situation.

The biggest protection you can provide, imho, it to stay in the picture at any cost. It is not a fair fight, keeping going is the victory.

Let us know how things go and keep getting thoughts from people on here. 🫡
 
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