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Fact Find before Section 7?
- Thread starter UkDad
- Start date
sorry hijacking this thread
Would it be a positive thing, if there were allegations on both sides and the judge has decided that a fact find wasn't required and moved straight to a section 7?
Though to be fair everyone wanted a fact find in the first hearing, but at this second hearing all sides seemed to change there minds after statements were submitted....
Would it be a positive thing, if there were allegations on both sides and the judge has decided that a fact find wasn't required and moved straight to a section 7?
Though to be fair everyone wanted a fact find in the first hearing, but at this second hearing all sides seemed to change there minds after statements were submitted....
Fact finds are best avoided imo, because even if they find 10 things on mum and 1 on dad, the emphasis will be on the one thing found against dad.
I had a fact finding, but both parties agreed a set of facts before going ahead with the 3day hearing because there was going to be lots of facts found against mum and there wasn't any contact with dad at the time.
Section 7 report, Cafcass still went on about domestic abuse, even though none found. At one point Cafcass officer said, "well, it's hard to prove domestic abuse". It is hard to prove when it didn't happen!!!!
Cafcass will tend to focus on the allegations against a Dad, and even, at times, say the allegations against the ex are just Dad not accepting his abuse. They will sometimes treat it as DARVO (Deny, attack, and reverse victim offender).
A section 7 tends to side with the Mother and ignore any allegations against her.
So what is the situation? Has the Judge said no fact find, but both parties have made allegations? That suggests the Judge has dismissed all allegations, but if the ex makes them again to Cafcass, I would think your best bet, as part of a section 7 is probably not to make any further allegations, but be clear you want to co parent amicably, even if at a distance or by app if the ex is not willing. That way it's less likely to be classed as "conflict between parents" being harmful to the kids.
A section 7 tends to side with the Mother and ignore any allegations against her.
So what is the situation? Has the Judge said no fact find, but both parties have made allegations? That suggests the Judge has dismissed all allegations, but if the ex makes them again to Cafcass, I would think your best bet, as part of a section 7 is probably not to make any further allegations, but be clear you want to co parent amicably, even if at a distance or by app if the ex is not willing. That way it's less likely to be classed as "conflict between parents" being harmful to the kids.
Yeah we do have a really biased cafcass rep, its actually mental how biased she is and is friends with the mums solicitor. We know it won't be her writing the report, but worry she will have some influence.
But all we can do is tell the truth, stay child focused and hope for the best. We just wondered why everyone was all for the fact finding at 1st (judge, cafcass and mums solictor) then at 2nd hearing once statements and responses to allegations were submitted, everyone seemed to change their tune. Not that is mattered as it was up to the judge, and he made it clear to the other side and cafcass it was him dismissing the need for a fact find not them......
But all we can do is tell the truth, stay child focused and hope for the best. We just wondered why everyone was all for the fact finding at 1st (judge, cafcass and mums solictor) then at 2nd hearing once statements and responses to allegations were submitted, everyone seemed to change their tune. Not that is mattered as it was up to the judge, and he made it clear to the other side and cafcass it was him dismissing the need for a fact find not them......
Cafcass and ex's solicitor will probably always want a fact find - because it causes long delays and can be prohibitively expensive for the party who doesn't have legal aid. The Judge clearly decided the allegations could be dealt with without a fact find - which is in your favour.
You have to look at what you want to achieve from this process. It's about getting an order for time with the kids isn't it? Rather than point scoring with an ex as to who is the worst (apologies as I don't mean to minimise anything that's happened) as that will lead nowhere but to give the ex sole residency and minimal time with Dad. All Cafcass want to see is that you're a safe, good parent, who isn't going to criticize the ex.
Unless you have evidence from social services that the ex is an unsafe Mother, then making allegations is usually just seen as mud slinging. Unless it's a Mother making them, then they're taken seriously as she is viewed as the "main" parent.
You have to look at what you want to achieve from this process. It's about getting an order for time with the kids isn't it? Rather than point scoring with an ex as to who is the worst (apologies as I don't mean to minimise anything that's happened) as that will lead nowhere but to give the ex sole residency and minimal time with Dad. All Cafcass want to see is that you're a safe, good parent, who isn't going to criticize the ex.
Unless you have evidence from social services that the ex is an unsafe Mother, then making allegations is usually just seen as mud slinging. Unless it's a Mother making them, then they're taken seriously as she is viewed as the "main" parent.
Thanks Ash,
No we totally agree with you. It is about the children totally 100% no need to apologize at all, We don't want to point score and want to co-parent as best as we can with the mum.
We were prepared for the bias culture, How cafcass spoke to us in the room before the hearing was pretty shocking to be honest, but we didn't react the way she thought we would I don't think.
We were just puzzled by why her solicitor and cafcass wanted a fact finding in the first hearing, but in the 2nd hearing they were also pushing for the fact find to be dropped, cafcass and the solicitor. We just wanted to do whatever the judge deemed appropriate, but we actually had cafcass come to us before the hearing pushing us to not ask for a fact find, it was mental tbh
Yes the judge ordered a Section 7, also added if no safe guarding issues were found by week 10 (they have 14 weeks to prepare the report) He would like my partner to be granted a form of interim access by the other side BEFORE the next hearing, to be agreed between all parties. Cafcass to be the ones managing it. Cafcass was not very happy with this part, stuttered her words and said well as long as mum agrees. To which the judge just replied I'm hoping all sides will be lead by professionals...
Like you say no rhyme or reason
Wow, this seems incredibly positive and clearly a Judge who is seeing through what usually happens.
If you are able to reserve all your hearings to this Judge, if they haven't done so themselves, I would recommend it.
Thanks MagicJ
Yes he did seem to be a positive judge, How would you do that MagicJ? I didn't realize we could do that?
I had a FF recommendation suggested by Cafcass dismissed by the judge at the FHDRA. To then later decide at the DRA to have a composite final hearing which is a FF and a final hearing combined.
Did they give a reason ?
Its crazy how nothing seems to have any official procedures to follow it's like the wild west !!
No reason apart from Cafcass asking for a factual matrix in the S7 report and then the ex's solicitor playing on this.
Im nearly 3 years into my case with a final hearing 5 months away. All we can do is prepare and hope for the best that we get a good outcome.