Damaged Reputation

[Pumpernickle]

Does anyone have any experience on false allegations made up by the fathers daughter.

The mother has become her daughters (12yr old) best friend spoiling her & never correcting bad behaviour.
The father was arrested for his daughter making a false allegations that he man handled & hit her.
He has now been prevented from seeing his daughters without the mothers supervision.
His 12 yr old daughter has been undoubtedly groomed by the mother. The fathers reputation has been damaged sadly.
The police obviously treated him disrespectfully & never believed the actual truth that this was a false allegations
Can the father take legal action even if it’s his daughter slandering his reputation

 

[Ash]

Hi. What does the Father want to achieve? Is it to renew his relationship with his daughter? Or to clear his name? Both I assume. Punishing the daughter by sueing wouldn't help ongoing relationships. And it should be viewed that it is the Mother who is the cause of these allegations and the daughter pressurised into it (therefore it's a welfare concern for the daughter as well if she's been coerced and subject to emotional harm as a result).

Many of us have had false allegations - to disrupt a relationship - whether minor or major - and when I looked into this, no you can't sue. It's virtually impossible. The only recourse is to sue for defamation of character which costs vast sums of money and is almost impossible to prove (and I mean vast - you're dealing with criminal court). And the result, if any would only be compensatory. It's more of a recourse for famous people who've been slandered in the media.

The route to deal with this is via the family courts, for a Child Arrangements Order for the Father to spend time with the daughter and submitting a C1A claiming emotional abuse and coercion of child by Mother. Family courts don't "punish" people like criminal courts do - they make orders based on the child's welfare. The clever thing about these allegations is it can't be determined and finalised in the family court until Police have closed the case and found no issues. He needs to be co operating with the Police politely. And yes they can sometimes just believe Mothers. Have they charged him? Is he on bail? Are they investigating? The main thing you want to achieve first is the case being closed. There is masses of publicity these days about VAWG (violence against women and girls) and some people will take advantage of that - especially as the Police have had a lot of criticism for not dealing with it so are probably looking out for their own reputation as well.

What the family court could do though, is order a fact finding hearing. Both parents submit their allegations and responses and any evidence (evidence could be a history of a good relationship with daughter, emails, texts etc - evidence that he was somewhere else at the time this was claimed, a GP letter stating daughter has not seen GP since x date and no issues - that kind of thing).

What were the circumstances leading up to this happening? Were there any court orders for him to see his daughter? How often did she stay with him before? Had the Father just met a new partner or moved house? Had Child Maintenance payments just been reduced?.

It is very common for this to happen when child gets to 12. The age when children are deemed to have Gillick competency (ie their own wishes and feelings heard at interview). As part of a family court process the childrens wishes are usually heard via Cafcass (usually via a chat in school, not actually in court) and they should be able to determine whether or not the daughter has been coached.

So two strands here. Firstly submit a C100 to court for a Child Arrangements order for daughter to spend regular time with Father, (not supervised). If there is not existing child arrangements order. If there is an existing one, then apply on a C79 form to enforce the current order.

Secondly, while that process is going on. Co-operate with the Police politely. Put something in writing - send them whatever info you have to show this is not the truth. Tell them he has applied to the family court to have the false allegations overturned.

Assuming he gets the allegations overturned by the family courts (thereby clearing his name and may help the Police report) they don't actually punish the Mother for false allegations. They just determine the issue and make orders accordingly. It seems bizarre but it's not a criminal court. It's rare, but there has been the odd occasion where the Mother has been charged with perjury. Very rare.

The Police can technically charge the Mother for wasting Police time but that is also rare (and a long drawn out process that can delay things).

The Father needs to be careful not to feel angry towards the daughter for this, as this is clearly what the Mother wants - the Father to reject the daughter - then alienation has been completed.

Have a look at the Parental Alienation section on here. It sounds like the Mother is alienating. It's a combination of derogating the other parent while "grooming" ie treating the child to create enmeshment with the alienating parent. There can also be threats and coercive control involved. Or more likely manipulation of the daughter, telling her things that aren't true to incite hostility into the daughter. For whatever reason, the Mother wants to sever the bond between Father and daughter. The fact that she is offering supervised time though makes it seem as if she isn't trying to do this so as to make her allegation hold more weight.

What is the history? ie how long were the parents separated and how long was daughter seeing Father since separation. It's common for this to happen when Dad gets a new partner.

Many Dads have been arrested and kept in a cell for 24 hours then released on bail while investigations are underway. Hang in there as this can be dealt with but he needs to be proactive and apply to the Family Court. There have been much worse false allegations (sexual abuse eg) which have been overturned.

Gather together all the evidence you can find - texts and emails since separation (between Dad and Ex and Dad and daughter). Write a timeline of Dad's time with daughter since separation. All the dates she stayed, what they did (general things) - dig out calendars and diaries for this - include any holidays or week-ends away or visits with friends and relatives. Was Dad involved with school at all? (Collections and pickups?).

If this is false it will be shown - no medical records with GP - nothing reported by school - no issues at school - positive history - circumstances at the time of allegation, that kind of thing.

Outomes to aim for are a) having the allegations knocked on the head by family court b) renewing his relationship with the daughter ongoing. Because otherwise the daughter loses a parent too and this can have bad effects throughout the teenage years.

Various things can be implemented - a court guardian to keep an eye on things and make sure the order is followed. A finding against the Mother that will deter her from repeating such things.

 

[Ash]

They can also order no derogation of the father to be allowed to be posted to social media. If that has happened, screenshot them then contact the social media company and ask for them to be taken down. You need to be showing a previously good, happy relationship between Father and daughter in your evidence.

The way forwards is to protect the Father and the daughter. If you let us know the circumstances prior to the allegation, can advise what to put on the C100 form. Also has he had any legal advice from a solicitor? Also were social services involved? If not that is another option. But check with us before proceeding. If they haven't been involved it also undermines the Mother's case a bit.

It's called the nuclear option (to control child's time with Father). Not exactly the nuclear option - that's usually when sexual abuse has been accused.

 

[Pumpernickle]

Hi. What does the Father want to achieve? Is it to renew his relationship with his daughter? Or to clear his name? Both I assume. Punishing the daughter by sueing wouldn't help ongoing relationships. And it should be viewed that it is the Mother who is the cause of these allegations and the daughter pressurised into it (therefore it's a welfare concern for the daughter as well if she's been coerced and subject to emotional harm as a result).

Many of us have had false allegations - to disrupt a relationship - whether minor or major - and when I looked into this, no you can't sue. It's virtually impossible. The only recourse is to sue for defamation of character which costs vast sums of money and is almost impossible to prove (and I mean vast - you're dealing with criminal court). And the result, if any would only be compensatory. It's more of a recourse for famous people who've been slandered in the media.

The route to deal with this is via the family courts, for a Child Arrangements Order for the Father to spend time with the daughter and submitting a C1A claiming emotional abuse and coercion of child by Mother. Family courts don't "punish" people like criminal courts do - they make orders based on the child's welfare. The clever thing about these allegations is it can't be determined and finalised in the family court until Police have closed the case and found no issues. He needs to be co operating with the Police politely. And yes they can sometimes just believe Mothers. Have they charged him? Is he on bail? Are they investigating? The main thing you want to achieve first is the case being closed. There is masses of publicity these days about VAWG (violence against women and girls) and some people will take advantage of that - especially as the Police have had a lot of criticism for not dealing with it so are probably looking out for their own reputation as well.

What the family court could do though, is order a fact finding hearing. Both parents submit their allegations and responses and any evidence (evidence could be a history of a good relationship with daughter, emails, texts etc - evidence that he was somewhere else at the time this was claimed, a GP letter stating daughter has not seen GP since x date and no issues - that kind of thing).

What were the circumstances leading up to this happening? Were there any court orders for him to see his daughter? How often did she stay with him before? Had the Father just met a new partner or moved house? Had Child Maintenance payments just been reduced?.

It is very common for this to happen when child gets to 12. The age when children are deemed to have Gillick competency (ie their own wishes and feelings heard at interview). As part of a family court process the childrens wishes are usually heard via Cafcass (usually via a chat in school, not actually in court) and they should be able to determine whether or not the daughter has been coached.

So two strands here. Firstly submit a C100 to court for a Child Arrangements order for daughter to spend regular time with Father, (not supervised). If there is not existing child arrangements order. If there is an existing one, then apply on a C79 form to enforce the current order.

Secondly, while that process is going on. Co-operate with the Police politely. Put something in writing - send them whatever info you have to show this is not the truth. Tell them he has applied to the family court to have the false allegations overturned.

Assuming he gets the allegations overturned by the family courts (thereby clearing his name and may help the Police report) they don't actually punish the Mother for false allegations. They just determine the issue and make orders accordingly. It seems bizarre but it's not a criminal court. It's rare, but there has been the odd occasion where the Mother has been charged with perjury. Very rare.

The Police can technically charge the Mother for wasting Police time but that is also rare (and a long drawn out process that can delay things).

The Father needs to be careful not to feel angry towards the daughter for this, as this is clearly what the Mother wants - the Father to reject the daughter - then alienation has been completed.

Have a look at the Parental Alienation section on here. It sounds like the Mother is alienating. It's a combination of derogating the other parent while "grooming" ie treating the child to create enmeshment with the alienating parent. There can also be threats and coercive control involved. Or more likely manipulation of the daughter, telling her things that aren't true to incite hostility into the daughter. For whatever reason, the Mother wants to sever the bond between Father and daughter. The fact that she is offering supervised time though makes it seem as if she isn't trying to do this so as to make her allegation hold more weight.

What is the history? ie how long were the parents separated and how long was daughter seeing Father since separation. It's common for this to happen when Dad gets a new partner.

Many Dads have been arrested and kept in a cell for 24 hours then released on bail while investigations are underway. Hang in there as this can be dealt with but he needs to be proactive and apply to the Family Court. There have been much worse false allegations (sexual abuse eg) which have been overturned.

Gather together all the evidence you can find - texts and emails since separation (between Dad and Ex and Dad and daughter). Write a timeline of Dad's time with daughter since separation. All the dates she stayed, what they did (general things) - dig out calendars and diaries for this - include any holidays or week-ends away or visits with friends and relatives. Was Dad involved with school at all? (Collections and pickups?).

If this is false it will be shown - no medical records with GP - nothing reported by school - no issues at school - positive history - circumstances at the time of allegation, that kind of thing.

Outomes to aim for are a) having the allegations knocked on the head by family court b) renewing his relationship with the daughter ongoing. Because otherwise the daughter loses a parent too and this can have bad effects throughout the teenage years.

Various things can be implemented - a court guardian to keep an eye on things and make sure the order is followed. A finding against the Mother that will deter her from repeating such things.

Thanks for your message.
Why I asked about the legal side of making a false allegation just knowing what’s entailed may help him putting a polite letter together to the mother informing her that using there daughter to punishes him is unacceptable, maybe reminding her that it’s total irresponsible for there 13 year old daughter to make a false allegation.

The father took the youngest daughter out today for 1 hour. She told her father that she is aware that her older sister & mother check her mobile at night whilst she pretends to sleep.
When he returned his daughter the oldest sister viewed of them both today on her phone. She slammed it down in disgust.

I think it’s pure jealousy & truth be known she wishes she had back her relationship with her father. Children can’t turn love off towards there father just like that when there’s been so many happy memories
I think it’s imperative that I research more into what her mother is using her for. Making a 13 year old the mothers best friend, banning her from having friends, ruining her with gifts. The father is perceived as the bad one just for setting boundaries. The daughter is unaware of what her mother is mouldering her into & doing?
What’s the legal names for parenting abuse through mental programming

 

[Pumpernickle]

They can also order no derogation of the father to be allowed to be posted to social media. If that has happened, screenshot them then contact the social media company and ask for them to be taken down. You need to be showing a previously good, happy relationship between Father and daughter in your evidence.

The way forwards is to protect the Father and the daughter. If you let us know the circumstances prior to the allegation, can advise what to put on the C100 form. Also has he had any legal advice from a solicitor? Also were social services involved? If not that is another option. But check with us before proceeding. If they haven't been involved it also undermines the Mother's case a bit.

It's called the nuclear option (to control child's time with Father). Not exactly the nuclear option - that's usually when sexual abuse has been accused.

Wow thank you, I will ask him later

Thank you so much xx

 

[Ash]

Thanks for your message.
Why I asked about the legal side of making a false allegation just knowing what’s entailed may help him putting a polite letter together to the mother informing her that using there daughter to punishes him is unacceptable, maybe reminding her that it’s total irresponsible for there 13 year old daughter to make a false allegation.

The father took the youngest daughter out today for 1 hour. She told her father that she is aware that her older sister & mother check her mobile at night whilst she pretends to sleep.
When he returned his daughter the oldest sister viewed of them both today on her phone. She slammed it down in disgust.

I think it’s pure jealousy & truth be known she wishes she had back her relationship with her father. Children can’t turn love off towards there father just like that when there’s been so many happy memories
I think it’s imperative that I research more into what her mother is using her for. Making a 13 year old the mothers best friend, banning her from having friends, ruining her with gifts. The father is perceived as the bad one just for setting boundaries. The daughter is unaware of what her mother is mouldering her into & doing?
What’s the legal names for parenting abuse through mental programming

If you look through some of the info on the home page there is quite a lot of info about this kind of thing. It might be attempted parental alienation. But that is a big topic - something it's usually advised not to accuse the Mother of or the Father is then seen as possibly hostile by making allegations about the Mother.

So also he should avoid putting things like that in messages. If this kind of thing is going on and these allegations have been made, he can't really have any normal level of communication with the Mother and it needs sorting out really.

It's an unpleasant strategy - she knows that he knows that she put daughter up to this so no point confronting her with it as then he'll be accused of harrassment or worse.

There are degrees of toxic behaviour, malicious Mother syndrome, full blown parental alienation. But was there a trigger for this happening? Assume everything had been going fine until the daughter made the allegation.

 

[Ash]

Will reply more later.

 

[Pumpernickle]

Will reply more later.

I would appreciate what needs to happen, surely contacting police & put on record that his daughter made a false allegation with no proof & given conditions he must follow. Wouldn’t putting it on file his concerns over future allegations made by ex or 13 yr old daughter.

Thank you

 

[Ash]

You could possibly ask the Police to put on file that he is concerned about further false allegations. They might or might not - sometimes they're not very helpful like that.

But I would urge him to apply to the family court for an order for both daughters. Cafcass are very likely to pick up if the eldest one has been alienated against him. The way to deal with alienation is - firstly - to ensure they have plenty of regular time with Dad, away from Mum. So they have a good chunk of a taste of normality and the alienation doesn't take hold. The more she is away and under her Mother's influence the more it will take hold.

You didn't say what the history was. How long has he been separated from his ex? What was the schedule for seeing his daughters before this happened? How many months/years has he been co parenting before this happened? That can make a big difference. Alienated children can be quite controlled and even terrorised into making allegations. Or their heads filled with rubbish about Dad.

The fact she is letting him see the youngest one is quite clever in some ways as it kind of shows his ex believes the allegations by the older one and it's the older one's choice not to see her Dad. On the other hand, if the Mother is saying Dad is a risk to the girls, then she is failing to protect by letting him see the younger one. I suspect she is going with the angle that it's nothing to do with her and it's eldest one's choice.

When an alienating parent does alienate they sometimes do just do it with one child. It does sound like she is alienating. Enmeshment is when there is an unnaturally close thing between parent and child - a kind of inappropriate collusion. It's emotionally harmful.

Is there any slight truth in the allegation? ie did he discipline her for something mildly and it's been exaggerated into something else? Or totally fabricated?

 

[Ash]

So to apply to family court, he needs to

1) Have had a MIAM (first mediation appointment for advice). Ideally courts like to see the parents have tried mediation. It's a bit difficult to have mediation with someone who is making allegations against you. But they still like to see you've tried. He could text his ex and ask her if she will go to mediation to discuss the children. If she says no then fine - he just asks the mediator to sign him off. He needs that sign off to apply to court. He could just go to the first appointment and say he wants signing off and it's not suitable for mediation.
2) Complete a C100 form (linked below) for a Child Arrangements order. Ask on here for help completing it - especially section 5b. There's also a guide to completing it in the tab at the top "Legal Resources". And a video posted by Invisible Intellectual in the Literature section.
3) I would also suggest he submits a C1A stating emotional harm of his daughter who has been incited into making false allegations. With a C1A you can attach evidence. Finding some could be tricky. You don't have a police closure report exonerating him. But he might have other documents that show a long happy parent/child relationship. Pictures she drew, text messages, a recent photo of them together maybe from just before this happened.

Google family mediators in the area and phone round them and go with the earliest appointment or the one you like the sound of. Costs about £125 for the first session. If he is going to try mediation (if the ex agrees) ask the mediator about a £500 voucher from the Gov for free mediation (supposed to last until the end of March so be quick!).

But start filling the C100 in anyway.

Various things could happen as part of a court case. They could make an order so child spends half the time with each parent if they feel she's been alienated.

The court fee is £215 and you can apply on your own and don't need a solicitor. If he can afford a solicitor, fine, but they tend to run up a lot of bills. I think it's easier to do your own application (often better worded than one a solicitor would do as more personal) and then use a solicitor for the odd thing, like helping write statements. And use a direct access barrister for the final hearing.

The very process of going for a Child Arrangements order can put pressure on the Mother to behave or back down. Although now the allegations have been made they can hardly withdraw them (but it's possible).

 

[Ash]

Apply for a court order to make arrangements for a child or resolve a dispute about their upbringing: Form C100

Apply for a 'child arrangements', 'prohibited steps' or 'specific issue' order under the Children Act 1989. You might be able to apply online.

www.gov.uk

Click on the second download link on that page, to download the whole form so you can see what it says. The online application you don't see what's what - it's just a different question on each page. I personally think it's better to use the downloaded paper form - the online one is a bit limited in places.

 

[Pumpernickle]

You could possibly ask the Police to put on file that he is concerned about further false allegations. They might or might not - sometimes they're not very helpful like that.

But I would urge him to apply to the family court for an order for both daughters. Cafcass are very likely to pick up if the eldest one has been alienated against him. The way to deal with alienation is - firstly - to ensure they have plenty of regular time with Dad, away from Mum. So they have a good chunk of a taste of normality and the alienation doesn't take hold. The more she is away and under her Mother's influence the more it will take hold.

You didn't say what the history was. How long has he been separated from his ex? What was the schedule for seeing his daughters before this happened? How many months/years has he been co parenting before this happened? That can make a big difference. Alienated children can be quite controlled and even terrorised into making allegations. Or their heads filled with rubbish about Dad.

The fact she is letting him see the youngest one is quite clever in some ways as it kind of shows his ex believes the allegations by the older one and it's the older one's choice not to see her Dad. On the other hand, if the Mother is saying Dad is a risk to the girls, then she is failing to protect by letting him see the younger one. I suspect she is going with the angle that it's nothing to do with her and it's eldest one's choice.

When an alienating parent does alienate they sometimes do just do it with one child. It does sound like she is alienating. Enmeshment is when there is an unnaturally close thing between parent and child - a kind of inappropriate collusion. It's emotionally harmful.

Is there any slight truth in the allegation? ie did he discipline her for something mildly and it's been exaggerated into something else? Or totally fabricated?

With the mother inviting the eldest daughter to a NYE party @ 11.45pm was done only to cause problems. I can imagine the mother luring the eldest with an abundance of gifts.
When the father refused sending his daughter out that time of the evening his eldest went absolutely crazy. Throwing things, erratic behaviour/out of control. In her fathers face.
His only crime to which he admitted doing was throwing a glass of water in her face purely to calm her down.
The father had zero control of the situation, she was screaming hateful words at him, to stop her literally losing it a glass of water was thrown in her face.
She immediately told her mother over the phone to call the police. She was caught writing an email to her mother saying she was manhandled & overpowered by father forcing her to stay in house
She contacted the police immediately after she left his house. 40 minutes later he is arrested for a false allegation.

 

[Ash]

Ok. So for a start of the daughter does sound like the Mother is alienating. The Mother didn't contact the Father to ask if daughter could go, she bypassed him and contacted daughter directly. Manipulation. Daughter's reaction seems to be partly fear that she has to do what her Mother says (or else). But throwing a glass of water over her was not a clever idea and could well be seen as over the top. While I totally get it was an extreme situation, that is exactly how you are set up by parental alienation. The child becomes so hostile you can't control them and feel desperate to calm things down. But anything you then do is used against you. I think I would be upfront to the Police and tell it exactly as it was. That daughter became agressive and uncontrollable after being incited by her Mother, and in desperation you poured a glass of water over her, which he realises was not a clever thing to do and is highly unusual, but he was trying to calm her down as she was off the scale. Appeal to their common sense and humanity - when you tell the truth it becomes clear to people.

If the daughter said she was manhandled and forced to stay in the house (which sounds like the Mother's words to me anyway) it would be out of fear of recrimination from her Mother.

The Mother created this situation and that was the intention - to create disruption. It's why once you know this kind of thing is going on, you need to be prepared and know how to handle it. With older kids it's so much harder because you can't monitor their phones in the same way as when they're younger, or set the same house rules re phones.

 

[Pumpernickle]

Apply for a court order to make arrangements for a child or resolve a dispute about their upbringing: Form C100

Apply for a 'child arrangements', 'prohibited steps' or 'specific issue' order under the Children Act 1989. You might be able to apply online.

www.gov.uk

Click on the second download link on that page, to download the whole form so you can see what it says. The online application you don't see what's what - it's just a different question on each page. I personally think it's better to use the downloaded paper form - the online one is a bit limited in places.

Can I get some advice on this form?

With his concerns over child alienation which box does he tick on the c100 form

 

[Pumpernickle]

So to apply to family court, he needs to

1) Have had a MIAM (first mediation appointment for advice). Ideally courts like to see the parents have tried mediation. It's a bit difficult to have mediation with someone who is making allegations against you. But they still like to see you've tried. He could text his ex and ask her if she will go to mediation to discuss the children. If she says no then fine - he just asks the mediator to sign him off. He needs that sign off to apply to court. He could just go to the first appointment and say he wants signing off and it's not suitable for mediation.
2) Complete a C100 form (linked below) for a Child Arrangements order. Ask on here for help completing it - especially section 5b. There's also a guide to completing it in the tab at the top "Legal Resources". And a video posted by Invisible Intellectual in the Literature section.
3) I would also suggest he submits a C1A stating emotional harm of his daughter who has been incited into making false allegations. With a C1A you can attach evidence. Finding some could be tricky. You don't have a police closure report exonerating him. But he might have other documents that show a long happy parent/child relationship. Pictures she drew, text messages, a recent photo of them together maybe from just before this happened.

Google family mediators in the area and phone round them and go with the earliest appointment or the one you like the sound of. Costs about £125 for the first session. If he is going to try mediation (if the ex agrees) ask the mediator about a £500 voucher from the Gov for free mediation (supposed to last until the end of March so be quick!).

But start filling the C100 in anyway.

Various things could happen as part of a court case. They could make an order so child spends half the time with each parent if they feel she's been alienated.

The court fee is £215 and you can apply on your own and don't need a solicitor. If he can afford a solicitor, fine, but they tend to run up a lot of bills. I think it's easier to do your own application (often better worded than one a solicitor would do as more personal) and then use a solicitor for the odd thing, like helping write statements. And use a direct access barrister for the final hearing.

The very process of going for a Child Arrangements order can put pressure on the Mother to behave or back down. Although now the allegations have been made they can hardly withdraw them (but it's possible).

Wow thank u so much, the guy who’s going through this has been very I’ll, he’s having tests for diabetes, I honestly feel he’s given up though, family court date in 10 days I think. He’s shut himself away so I’ve messaged him tonight asking he pop round, I saved the above forms

Thank u xx