I am asking my ex for 1 night every two weeks contact with my 18 month old son on a weeknight to go with every Saturday and Sunday alternating . My ex says he is two young and has a routine and I wouldn't get anything out of it as he goes to bed at 7 . Am I being unreasonable for asking ? She misses the point that just having him in my care/home even sleeping means the world to me and most part time dad's would understand that
Guest viewing is limited
- You have a limited number of page views remaining
- 2 guest views remaining
- Register now to remove this limitation
Weeknight contact - 18 month old son
- Thread starter OliverR
- Start date
Definitely understand the point about having in your care.
Are alternate Saturdays and Sundays including overnight(s) and in a Child Arrangements Order?
It is not about whether or not you are being unreasonable, obviously you are not. But you could be in an iffy situation if ex thinks you are.
Are alternate Saturdays and Sundays including overnight(s) and in a Child Arrangements Order?
It is not about whether or not you are being unreasonable, obviously you are not. But you could be in an iffy situation if ex thinks you are.
You should assess carefully in my view. If ex turns against you the Saturday night could be withdrawn at a moment's notice. I might be tempted to make sure that is in the bag before pushing too hard for more.
Weeknight could be explored delicately in meditation. If there is no movement on it, I think I'd still take the consent order confirming what you have, rather than getting into proceedings. Maybe it could be stepped, with more over nights introduced at an agreed later date.
Wait and see what others suggest, they might be more optimistic. I've seen too many dads who would give their right arm to have 1 overnight while so young.
Sorry it this is in other threads I have not read:
How long ago was the split?
How involved were you if/when you lived as a family unit?
How is relationship with ex?
I think answers to questions above will help other members assess options for you.
Weeknight could be explored delicately in meditation. If there is no movement on it, I think I'd still take the consent order confirming what you have, rather than getting into proceedings. Maybe it could be stepped, with more over nights introduced at an agreed later date.
Wait and see what others suggest, they might be more optimistic. I've seen too many dads who would give their right arm to have 1 overnight while so young.
Sorry it this is in other threads I have not read:
How long ago was the split?
How involved were you if/when you lived as a family unit?
How is relationship with ex?
I think answers to questions above will help other members assess options for you.
We split when he was 6 months but got back together at about ten months old but have split again in thd last month . We agreed verbally that I have him every Saturday 9am to Sunday 9am and then Sunday 9am to 5pm alternating .
Not great she's basically using our son as a weapon against me but I guess that's quite common so I just need to grow thick skin .
I've logged all the times I've had him since last August, including having him while working from home on a couple of days where he was ill and nursery won't take him . I also pay 100 over the calculated amount each month , not that it should be about money .
Not great she's basically using our son as a weapon against me but I guess that's quite common so I just need to grow thick skin .
I've logged all the times I've had him since last August, including having him while working from home on a couple of days where he was ill and nursery won't take him . I also pay 100 over the calculated amount each month , not that it should be about money .
If your son is 18 months old, he will be turning two in 6 months (sorry for stating the obvious there). Point being, when he turns two you're entitled to a full schedule - if you want a full schedule - of a full every other week-end and a midweek overnight. Or rather, your son is entitled to that.
I think I would try mediation as you suggest, asking for a midweek overnight and for the schedule to progress to every other week-end when he turns two - from Friday night to Monday morning. And see what the reaction is. A good mediator might say to her "he will get that if he applies to court so you might as well agree".
Meanwhile - communication. Try and make sure all your communications to ex sound child focused, polite and reasonable. Firstly they are more likely to have a better effect, secondly if you ever need to apply to court, anything in writing can be helpful (or work against you) to show you are the reasonable, child focused one and she is being obstructive etc.
You maybe already communicate like that, but I'd suggest starting with a BIFF email (brief, informative, friendly, formal - as if writing to a business colleague). It keeps the personal and emotional out of it and is blindingly reasonable.
So maybe something like
"Dear Ex Name
I hope you and x are doing fine. As you know I feel it would benefit x enormously to have a midweek overnight with me. I feel it would be good for our son's stability and confidence with both parents, if he had that midweek night weekly in between week-ends.
I realise you feel that, as he goes to bed by 7pm, that I won't see much of him anyway, but he will benefit from having his meal and bedtime routine with me, and waking up with me in the morning - so he has that experience regularly with both of us and has a stable routine of parenting.
I suggest Friday night one week (before my Saturday night) and Thursday night the following week (before my Sunday night). I can finish work early on Thursdays and pick him up at 4pm. Please let me know your thoughts on this.
Regards, you"
I just put that bit in about beign able to finish work early on Wednesdays (or whatever day is best for you) but that might not be possible. What time can you get away from work one night a week?
I think I would try mediation as you suggest, asking for a midweek overnight and for the schedule to progress to every other week-end when he turns two - from Friday night to Monday morning. And see what the reaction is. A good mediator might say to her "he will get that if he applies to court so you might as well agree".
Meanwhile - communication. Try and make sure all your communications to ex sound child focused, polite and reasonable. Firstly they are more likely to have a better effect, secondly if you ever need to apply to court, anything in writing can be helpful (or work against you) to show you are the reasonable, child focused one and she is being obstructive etc.
You maybe already communicate like that, but I'd suggest starting with a BIFF email (brief, informative, friendly, formal - as if writing to a business colleague). It keeps the personal and emotional out of it and is blindingly reasonable.
So maybe something like
"Dear Ex Name
I hope you and x are doing fine. As you know I feel it would benefit x enormously to have a midweek overnight with me. I feel it would be good for our son's stability and confidence with both parents, if he had that midweek night weekly in between week-ends.
I realise you feel that, as he goes to bed by 7pm, that I won't see much of him anyway, but he will benefit from having his meal and bedtime routine with me, and waking up with me in the morning - so he has that experience regularly with both of us and has a stable routine of parenting.
I suggest Friday night one week (before my Saturday night) and Thursday night the following week (before my Sunday night). I can finish work early on Thursdays and pick him up at 4pm. Please let me know your thoughts on this.
Regards, you"
I just put that bit in about beign able to finish work early on Wednesdays (or whatever day is best for you) but that might not be possible. What time can you get away from work one night a week?
I've edited it so you're asking for Friday night one week (so you have Friday/Sat consecutive that week-end) and Thursday night the following week.
So you'd have
Week 1: Friday xpm to Sunday 9am
Week 2: Thursday xpm to Friday x am and Sunday 9am to Sunday 5pm
As you see him every week-end, she could have an argument that it's too much toing and froing midweek. But that';s not really an argument at 18 months old, as long as there are a couple of nights and it's not every other night in each home.
I would say by age 3 you'd be wanting - every other week-end from Friday to Monday morning (if you can manage Monday mornings with work) and alternate Monday and Thursday nights overnight. That way he's with you every 3 or 4 days. If you have the same midweek night each week (eg wednesday) you have a long gap one week and a short gap the following week.
So you'd have
Week 1: Friday xpm to Sunday 9am
Week 2: Thursday xpm to Friday x am and Sunday 9am to Sunday 5pm
As you see him every week-end, she could have an argument that it's too much toing and froing midweek. But that';s not really an argument at 18 months old, as long as there are a couple of nights and it's not every other night in each home.
I would say by age 3 you'd be wanting - every other week-end from Friday to Monday morning (if you can manage Monday mornings with work) and alternate Monday and Thursday nights overnight. That way he's with you every 3 or 4 days. If you have the same midweek night each week (eg wednesday) you have a long gap one week and a short gap the following week.
I think the current schedule was ok when he was younger, but it does need more than 1 night a fortnight now. I think it's too soon for every other week-end, even with midweek nights. At the moment he has a good period of time with you once a week. But he's getting older and don't see why he shouldn't at least stay Sunday nights. When my son was this age I had every Saturday from 5pm through to Sunday 5pm and every Tuesday night. Sometimes Tuesday, sometimes Wednesday - I worked around which night was best for my ex. But that was only because she liked her nights out on Saturday nights! And a rest to recuperate on Sundays!
What you could have instead is 5pm Friday to 5pm Saturday one week and 5pm Saturday to 5pm Sunday the following week. Plus a midweek night on Tues or Wed.
If trying mediation I would try, to start with, for a full day and night each week-end as above, progressing to a midweek overnight as well when he turns 2. Is your son at nursery? What time do you finish and start work midweek?
What you could have instead is 5pm Friday to 5pm Saturday one week and 5pm Saturday to 5pm Sunday the following week. Plus a midweek night on Tues or Wed.
If trying mediation I would try, to start with, for a full day and night each week-end as above, progressing to a midweek overnight as well when he turns 2. Is your son at nursery? What time do you finish and start work midweek?
Last edited:
Shame it's only till 1pm - so means you have to pick him up from ex's house. But no reason you shouldn't have him from 5pm on Friday to 5pm Sat one week and 5pm Sat to 5pm Sunday the next week. And no reason you shouldn't have him Tuesday nights from 5pm and drop him back at nursery next morning.
Maybe at mediation, say you'd like to draw up a parenting plan with these times on, and any other things you agree on re childcare.
Maybe at mediation, say you'd like to draw up a parenting plan with these times on, and any other things you agree on re childcare.
So I've booked a first MIAM for his coming Tuesday, based on my replies I think that the way forward is as follows...
Contact upto and until weekend of 23rd/24th of July 2022
Sunday 9am - 5pm (19th of June)
Saturday 9am - Sunday 9am - (25th /26th of June)
Alternating
(this is current contact)
________________________________________________
Contact from weekend of 23rd/24th of July to Saturday the 21st /22nd of January (Sons 2nd birthday on the 21st)
Saturday 9am - Sunday 9am (23rd /24th of June)
Sunday 9am - Monday 8pm- Drop off at nursery (31st/1st of August )
________________________________________________
Contact from weekend of 27th /29th of January 2023- Son will be 2 years old
Every other weekend
Friday 5pm - Sunday 5pm
Friday 27th - Sunday 29th of Jan (My first weekend - every other weekend after )
Midweek nights
Tuesday nights 5pm -8am Wednesday
From Tuesday 31st of January 2023
________________________________________________
Holidays etc
Christmas 2022
Christmas day Sunday December 25th 1pm - Boxing day Monday 26th 4pm (me)
Christmas 2023
Christmas eve Sunday December 24th 9am - Chrustmas day Monday 25th of December 1pm
Pattern continues.....
Christmas holidays between 27th of December and New year (excluding weekends ) to be shared . (Happy to negotiate with ex in this)
Sons birthday- to be shared every year
Suggest 9am - 2pm
2 weeks holiday (not consecutive) with my son a year from 2 years old .
So in brief from 18months old I gain an extra nights contact a fortnight so I have him a day and night a week .
From 2 years old it changes from this to every other weekend 5pm Friday to 5pm Sunday.
I've not bothered asking for holidays until he is over 2 with the exception of Christmas.
I've decided not tk include a week night until he is 2 years old .
What's peoples general thoughts on this , am I asking for too much given his age or is this fair ?
Contact upto and until weekend of 23rd/24th of July 2022
Sunday 9am - 5pm (19th of June)
Saturday 9am - Sunday 9am - (25th /26th of June)
Alternating
(this is current contact)
________________________________________________
Contact from weekend of 23rd/24th of July to Saturday the 21st /22nd of January (Sons 2nd birthday on the 21st)
Saturday 9am - Sunday 9am (23rd /24th of June)
Sunday 9am - Monday 8pm- Drop off at nursery (31st/1st of August )
________________________________________________
Contact from weekend of 27th /29th of January 2023- Son will be 2 years old
Every other weekend
Friday 5pm - Sunday 5pm
Friday 27th - Sunday 29th of Jan (My first weekend - every other weekend after )
Midweek nights
Tuesday nights 5pm -8am Wednesday
From Tuesday 31st of January 2023
________________________________________________
Holidays etc
Christmas 2022
Christmas day Sunday December 25th 1pm - Boxing day Monday 26th 4pm (me)
Christmas 2023
Christmas eve Sunday December 24th 9am - Chrustmas day Monday 25th of December 1pm
Pattern continues.....
Christmas holidays between 27th of December and New year (excluding weekends ) to be shared . (Happy to negotiate with ex in this)
Sons birthday- to be shared every year
Suggest 9am - 2pm
2 weeks holiday (not consecutive) with my son a year from 2 years old .
So in brief from 18months old I gain an extra nights contact a fortnight so I have him a day and night a week .
From 2 years old it changes from this to every other weekend 5pm Friday to 5pm Sunday.
I've not bothered asking for holidays until he is over 2 with the exception of Christmas.
I've decided not tk include a week night until he is 2 years old .
What's peoples general thoughts on this , am I asking for too much given his age or is this fair ?
This seems like a measured and reasonable proposal to me.
I'd be looking at ways of making clear provision for multiple nights with you consecutively, maybe through the holiday weeks. If there is resistence it can take years of battle to move this up. If are thinking of going abroad on holiday, there will need to be an arrangement on passport handover, notice...
As a general point, orders that operate by agreement for holiday periods are risky business. They put "resident" parent in charge with little incentive to be reasonable.
In this case, it might be a good idea to agree some detail on how period from 27/12-01/01 is to be shared. It is 5 nights so cannot be shared evenly. If it is just "by agreement" you'll be over a barrel. "Schedule by agreement, minimum of 2 nights with each" or similar, so that there is a definite portion of that period with you, would be good.
I'd be looking at ways of making clear provision for multiple nights with you consecutively, maybe through the holiday weeks. If there is resistence it can take years of battle to move this up. If are thinking of going abroad on holiday, there will need to be an arrangement on passport handover, notice...
As a general point, orders that operate by agreement for holiday periods are risky business. They put "resident" parent in charge with little incentive to be reasonable.
In this case, it might be a good idea to agree some detail on how period from 27/12-01/01 is to be shared. It is 5 nights so cannot be shared evenly. If it is just "by agreement" you'll be over a barrel. "Schedule by agreement, minimum of 2 nights with each" or similar, so that there is a definite portion of that period with you, would be good.
Hi. Tricky - if you put all that at once she'll probably freak out with the lot and say no. If you try to increase gradually, you could get stuck.
I think it starts out looking good as a proposal but perhaps the latter bit about holidays could be "vaguer" at this stage so not so overwhelming, eg "and from my son turning 2, two separate weeks holiday a year and some shared time at Christmas". See if you can get the extra nights in the bag first. I think that would be my approach. Because I honestly think she would freak out and see it all as overwhelming and not want to let go.
The other thing is - don't use the word "contact" - it immediately puts you in a secondary position. I hate the word - it's inhuman - and technically defunct now and was replaced with "spends time with".
For the purposes of a draft for mediation you could use the word "schedule" rather than contact. It will be obvious the schedule is with you!
My only other thought is - I think she's highly unlikely to agree to Sunday nights. I don't know what it is with ex's but they see the week-end ending at 5 or 6pm on Sunday. I think you're more likely to get the extra overnight if it's Friday or Saturday.
You can try but I would have a "fallback position" of Friday 5pm to Sat 5pm one week and Sat 5pm to Sun 5pm the following week.
I can understand why you want it morning to morning - you get the whole day for him to chill before bedtime. But it works the other way too - sometimes, at the end of along day they don't settle at night and feel like wanting the habit of being back at Mum's. It's also hard for them to get up and leave in the morning after spending a night with you - a bit of a sudden end. I think that's why it's better to go evening to evening with overnights when it's just a single overnight. but up to you.
And although settling at night after a 5pm pickup might be less easier (but you can have his bedtime a bit later than 7pm
if he won't settle - I used to do that) - it's great when they wake up with you in the morning and have the whole day ahead of them with you.
But - if you do decide to stick to the 9am Sunday to 8am Monday - then when it progresses to every other week-end I think you want to KEEP those Sunday nights and have a 3 night week-end. So then it would be 5pm Friday to 8am Monday. Once you give up Sunday njghts its very hard to get them back again. It can mean a whole extra court application in future just to get the 3 night week-end.
In fact you don't even need to use the word schedule either - just put the dates "from x date to x date" and at the top put "time with Father".
If you were having Sunday nights then Tuesday wouldn't be the best for the midweek night possibly. I'd suggest - Thursday night after your week-end, and Monday night the following week. So that would be:
After 2nd birthday
Week 1: Monday 5pm to Tuesday 8am and Friday 5pm to Monday 8am
Week 2: Thursday 5pm to Friday 8am
This means you don;'t have a whole week without seeing him when it goes to every other week-end.
It's best if you can get this by agreement because courts tend to only order the same midweek night each week.
You could then pull back on the Sunday night if she objects to it being too much time - but you'd still get to see your son every 3 or 4 days and have a full week-end on alternate weeks.
I think it starts out looking good as a proposal but perhaps the latter bit about holidays could be "vaguer" at this stage so not so overwhelming, eg "and from my son turning 2, two separate weeks holiday a year and some shared time at Christmas". See if you can get the extra nights in the bag first. I think that would be my approach. Because I honestly think she would freak out and see it all as overwhelming and not want to let go.
The other thing is - don't use the word "contact" - it immediately puts you in a secondary position. I hate the word - it's inhuman - and technically defunct now and was replaced with "spends time with".
For the purposes of a draft for mediation you could use the word "schedule" rather than contact. It will be obvious the schedule is with you!
My only other thought is - I think she's highly unlikely to agree to Sunday nights. I don't know what it is with ex's but they see the week-end ending at 5 or 6pm on Sunday. I think you're more likely to get the extra overnight if it's Friday or Saturday.
You can try but I would have a "fallback position" of Friday 5pm to Sat 5pm one week and Sat 5pm to Sun 5pm the following week.
I can understand why you want it morning to morning - you get the whole day for him to chill before bedtime. But it works the other way too - sometimes, at the end of along day they don't settle at night and feel like wanting the habit of being back at Mum's. It's also hard for them to get up and leave in the morning after spending a night with you - a bit of a sudden end. I think that's why it's better to go evening to evening with overnights when it's just a single overnight. but up to you.
And although settling at night after a 5pm pickup might be less easier (but you can have his bedtime a bit later than 7pm
if he won't settle - I used to do that) - it's great when they wake up with you in the morning and have the whole day ahead of them with you.But - if you do decide to stick to the 9am Sunday to 8am Monday - then when it progresses to every other week-end I think you want to KEEP those Sunday nights and have a 3 night week-end. So then it would be 5pm Friday to 8am Monday. Once you give up Sunday njghts its very hard to get them back again. It can mean a whole extra court application in future just to get the 3 night week-end.
In fact you don't even need to use the word schedule either - just put the dates "from x date to x date" and at the top put "time with Father".
If you were having Sunday nights then Tuesday wouldn't be the best for the midweek night possibly. I'd suggest - Thursday night after your week-end, and Monday night the following week. So that would be:
After 2nd birthday
Week 1: Monday 5pm to Tuesday 8am and Friday 5pm to Monday 8am
Week 2: Thursday 5pm to Friday 8am
This means you don;'t have a whole week without seeing him when it goes to every other week-end.
It's best if you can get this by agreement because courts tend to only order the same midweek night each week.
You could then pull back on the Sunday night if she objects to it being too much time - but you'd still get to see your son every 3 or 4 days and have a full week-end on alternate weeks.