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[Oliveoilbottle]

Hi all, new here so please be gentle!

I've just received the section 7 report, following a fact-finding hearing back at the end of May '23. I have a solicitor but of course I can't badger them 24/7 and I have a few things that, to me at least, don't quite make sense or don't seem right...

short history (happy to clarify any points here):
- left FMH in nov '20
- ex stopped me seeing kids apr 22
- applied to court for access may 21
- ex had me arrested for c+c, r**e, financial control, sexual assault July 21 - just a week before initial hearing
- began seeing kids in contact centre oct 21 for hour and half a fortnight, supervised - contacts have all gone well
- may 23 we FINALLY got the fact find hearing done (various issues with the courts caused delays) - barring two allegations which I admitted to regarding shouting at kids and having threatened suicide back in sept '19, allegations were either not or only partially proven. judge said not proven on r**e, sexual assault, financial control, c+c
- august 23 had section 7 meeting and now I have the report

the report was supposed to be to look at how contact between the children and I can progress, however its recommended a change to 3 hours a month from 90mins a fortnight, no progression past this. The cafcass officer recommended I pay for play therapy for my daughter as she's nervous/worried about seeing me. Recommended stays supervised.

the bits I don't understand are that:
- despite the fact find having not found the allegations of r**e, c+c, financial control, sexual assault, etc the cafcass worker has still listened to my ex make these allegations again, has then said she believed them, and has then factored them into her decision. Should this happen? Surely the fact find outcomes should override this?

- the cafcass worker doesn't seem to treat my ex and I equally, for example she says that the accuracy of my mental health screening thing she did relies on me being honest (understandable), however she does not say the same of my ex's assessment for domestic abuse. this doesn't seem fair?

- there are several instances where they make comments about mental health and how they don't think my depression and anxiety would explain some of the things that had happened in the past (fact find again make decisions on these and found that my mental health WOULD have impacted these events). The cafcass advisor doesn't list any qualifications in mental health after their name, should they be making statements on what is likely? esp after the fact find?


I love my kids. I've worked really hard over the last (nearly) three years to educate myself, hold myself to account and to try to be a better dad. I didn't do the things my ex has accused me of and was relieved that the fact find supported me on this, however it feels like that two days of being cross examined and found not proven was worthless as they've just revisited it and decided I'm 'faking'! I should have been a better dad back before the split, I wasn't good enough, but I've been really working hard to be better.

I accept my daughter has been more affected than my son, and I'll happily pay for play therapy as recommended by cafcass, but I just don't see how permanently reducing contact (that's how it reads, certainly no suggestions past that) is fulfilling what the court has asked. I could understand maybe dropping the length/frequency while we get the therapy in place and supporting her, I can understand keeping it supervised, I want my daughter to feel safe of course. I don't understand though how they can say I'm doing things that there's no evidence of (and that I'm not!) and ignore the two years of positive contact reports and then recommend less contact...


sorry for the rant. I just don't get it.

 

[Roblox]

Hi and welcome

Your situation sadly is pretty common if you read the threads on here.

Some cafcass, social workers, support workers etc simply believe the Mother's 'story' and anything to the contrary will be ignored or minimised. Including unequivocal evidence at times.

Cafcass are persuasive but can certainly be challenged. You'll need professional legal support if you have the funds.

I'll leave it to others to give a bit more detail as they have more knowledge.

 

[Oliveoilbottle]

thanks for the reply and the kind words.

I find it so hard to take, they interviewed the kids at their home with their mum in the building and didn't take the opportunity to speak to the kids in the contact centre or anywhere neutral. They make assertions about my mental health and it seems to have improved and yet in next breathe its all about how 'I'm likely to relapse' and 'put on a good show'

seems so biased

 

[mainstay92]

It seems rediculious if you have had a fact finding and been cleared that they are allowed use the same again.. What is the point of having a fact finding and this happening..

They cant be that worried about your mental health treating you like this . Its a disgrace what fathers are been put through.

 

[Oliveoilbottle]

It seems rediculious if you have had a fact finding and been cleared that they are allowed use the same again.. What is the point of having a fact finding and this happening..

That's certainly how it feels to me

 

[mainstay92]

That's certainly how it feels to me

Are you due back in court that you can raise this with a judge?

 

[Oliveoilbottle]

Are you due back in court that you can raise this with a judge?

yeah there should be a hearing in next month or so to discuss the report

 

[mainstay92]

yeah there should be a hearing in next month or so to discuss the report

I would bring it to the Judges attention if I was you. Judges dont like their decisions not to be respected

 

[Ash]

I am really sorry to hear this. As Roblox says, it has happened to others. Commonly, a Section 7 after a fact find, will find in the Mother's favour and minimal or no time for Dad - or indirect only. Usually their argument is that there is conflict between the parents (if both parents have made allegations against each other) and they then argue that to avoid the conflict affecting the child, the child should live with the Mother full time and minimal or no time with Dad.

I'm a bit tired right now but will have a think. I believe someone looked into appealing a fact find but it was complex and would have meant having it all over again (and the costs) and that is not really the issue because you "won" the fact find. What does your solicitor say? I would suggest that, if you can afford it, you use a direct access barrister for the next hearing instead of the solicitor. You could just put the solicitor on hold for now.

 

[Daddy]

I too "won" my fact find hearing. During the Cafcass interview for section 7, when discussing the fact finding outcome the cafcass officer said that domestic abuse was hard to prove. (It wasn't because I proved I was the victim, although it falls on deaf ears)

In my position statement for the hearing after the S7, I wrote about the amount I was involved in the parenting of the child before the relationship breakdown. I would also highlight the positive relationship between you and the child at that time.

I would also propose a spends time with schedule that starts with the cafcass recommendations for a few weeks, (plus play therapy), that increases over time. Therefore building back up your relationship with your child at a steady pace, building up to over night stays after a few months.

 

[Oliveoilbottle]

I am really sorry to hear this. As Roblox says, it has happened to others. Commonly, a Section 7 after a fact find, will find in the Mother's favour and minimal or no time for Dad - or indirect only. Usually their argument is that there is conflict between the parents (if both parents have made allegations against each other) and they then argue that to avoid the conflict affecting the child, the child should live with the Mother full time and minimal or no time with Dad.

I'm a bit tired right now but will have a think. I believe someone looked into appealing a fact find but it was complex and would have meant having it all over again (and the costs) and that is not really the issue because you "won" the fact find. What does your solicitor say? I would suggest that, if you can afford it, you use a direct access barrister for the next hearing instead of the solicitor. You could just put the solicitor on hold for now.

thanks for replying

I guess I just find it hard because its always been the ex making accusations against me and we've not made any against her, plus I've spent two years now in contact centre with nothing but glowing reports, and the fact find went my way about as much as it could, and now this...!

the s7 was delayed by a couple of days into last week when unfortunately my sol was on holiday, I've written up a blow by blow 'take down' of the S7 ready for her to read tomorrow, I think she'll get where I'm coming from as we've been on same page the whole time. My barrister has been excellent as well so hopefully he'll have some views if he sees it.

I understand this whole thing isn't about me, it's about the kids being 'okay'. I would have no issue if they said something along lines of 'ok, your son is ok but your daughter is struggling a but still, lets back the contact off temporarily and get a therapist in and see what they say before we look to step things up', but all I've got is 'three hours a month, cafcass to end involvement'... how is that a plan?! surely the kids could end up thinking I don't want to see them or that I don't love them...

 

[mva]

I can’t see a daughter will be less anxious about seeing dad if it’s only 90 mins a month. Surely the answer would be to rapidly increase contact at your home so it becomes more normal. Having a third person play therapist will just add to the confusion. The caffcass officer should respect the fact finding and the fact that dads do sometimes suffer with mental health and leave you to parent both your kids.

 

[Oliveoilbottle]

I can’t see a daughter will be less anxious about seeing dad if it’s only 90 mins a month. Surely the answer would be to rapidly increase contact at your home so it becomes more normal. Having a third person play therapist will just add to the confusion. The caffcass officer should respect the fact finding and the fact that dads do sometimes suffer with mental health and leave you to parent both your kids.

apparently my daughter has 'three and a half hour meltdowns' in the run up to contact and is similar afterwards. I wonder what my ex is doing during these, as there is more than one way to support a child in this situation, but that's not something I can see. That would be the concern for increasing contact and why they are recommending a play therapist. I just want her to be ok

 

[Oliveoilbottle]

I too "won" my fact find hearing. During the Cafcass interview for section 7, when discussing the fact finding outcome the cafcass officer said that domestic abuse was hard to prove. (It wasn't because I proved I was the victim, although it falls on deaf ears)

In my position statement for the hearing after the S7, I wrote about the amount I was involved in the parenting of the child before the relationship breakdown. I would also highlight the positive relationship between you and the child at that time.

I would also propose a spends time with schedule that starts with the cafcass recommendations for a few weeks, (plus play therapy), that increases over time. Therefore building back up your relationship with your child at a steady pace, building up to over night stays after a few months.

This is my current draft proposal for how we could move things on (solicitor still to see this but I've given it a lot of thought:

• Happy to attend any courses requested by court or to give any undertaking they would feel appropriate – i.e. anger management, psychological evaluation, domestic abuse programmes, etc. Would be willing to obtain a mental health report from GP regarding the unlikelihood of my mental health problems returning.
  
  
• No change to contact frequency at present and sessions to remain supervised, pending appointment of counsellor/play therapist and their assessment of what is best for XXXX – willing to negotiate temporary changes to scheduling if it is best for XXXX and XXXXX, however I don’t believe the kids want or have asked for this.
  
  
• Counsellor specialising in play therapy to be instructed. Payment for sessions to be by me in full. Both sides to make proposals for potential candidates and it to be jointly agreed who this is to be. Frequency and length of appointments to be as recommended by therapist. Duration of treatment as directed by therapist. – happy to pay in full to show i'm listening to CAFCASS recommendations.
  
  
• Counsellor to be asked to provide report every three/four/six months on XXXX’s progress and to be asked to give opinion on safety/appropriateness of potential increase in length of contact/frequency/supervision to be relaxed/etc and to take into account XXXX’s views given in session.
  
  
• Every three/four/six months contact arrangements will be discussed between parties after counsellor report received, with counsellor and XXXX's opinion given most weight. Joint decision on any changes to be discussed/negotiated/agreed and changes made to contact amount/frequency/supervision level as appropriate. XXXX could be asked by counsellor or contact centre on her views to ensure neutrality and that she is not being influenced.
  
  
• Counsellor to give direction on if either parent to attend a session to work with XXXX or if any extra support is required as appropriate.

 

[mva]

I feel like you have to be careful what you offer as the ex could use these as a means to block future contact. A domestic abuse course could take months to complete. A psychological assessment could cost several thousand. Likewise with a play therapist.

I think your solicitor needs to give decent / proactive feed back on your situation. The fact find was largely in your favour, your mental health as you said was historic. It’s the caffcass report that needs to be challenged strongly in front of a judge.

I know you will jump through all the hoops you have too, but I personally wouldn’t invite extra hoops.

 

[Ash]

Agree. Maybe have a breather for a couple of days and then draft something. Yes you want to sound like you're being co operative but also have a bit of confidence perhaps.

 

[Oliveoilbottle]

Thank you for the advice; it’s been two long years of trying to prove myself, I guess I’m just desperate to ‘get ahead’ of their demands and get a line drawn under it

 

[Oliveoilbottle]

So, update:

my solicitor has been brilliant and helped me write a detailed 'witness statement' in response to the S7 report. It's now ready to go but we're waiting on the other side to respond to my request of a date to exchange statements. I swear they are so slow to do anything. In the meantime, we're still waiting on a court date for the DRA. I presume this will be booked soon as the judge was keen to get things moving.

Running parallel to all this is my ex pushing forward on an autism assessment for each of the kids. I've no particular problem with this - I don't personally believe either of them are autistic, but its always best to make sure - but it was hard the other day when I received a copy of the 'initial assessment' of my daughter. Weirdly, this assessment was done via my ex telling them about her without my daughter present. In the assessment my ex repeated her accusations of R, SA, C+C, domestic abuse, etc. It's beginning to feel like she's just trying to smear me now. I wrote to the assessment clinic to let them know none of this was found in family court and that I deny all accusations, but it just feels so tiring to have to keep doing it.

I feel a bit like all my daughters anxieties and behavioural 'issues' are as a result of my ex. I believe she's denigrating me and is manipulating my daughter to be scared of me and just generally emotionally abusing her, but how on earth can I even go about proving that. I think if I reported it to the local MASH they'd just see all I've been accused of and think I'm trying to get back at her.