Guest viewing is limited

Struggling - daughter witheld and allegations

Ash

Administrator
Staff member
Super Moderator
Ok I'm with you there. Things became too uncomfortable to be amicable.

Not surprised your head isn't in the right place! A lot going on. You've had every application possible thrown at you!

I'm still a bit confused about the C100 - a C100 can be for different types of order. Either for a Child Arrangements order, prohibited steps or specific issues usually - or two or three of those on one application. I am guessing the C100 was for the prohibited steps is that right? Or did it also include Child Arrangements?

If the C100 was a next day hearing then that was an urgent application, presumably claiming welfare issues. You should still be sent a C7 form to respond to that application. On this you can respond to the content of the C100 and also put in your own application. I would suggest submitting your own C100 for Child Arrangements and that also gives you the opportunity to state your view of the sitaiton. It could be worth phoning the court and asking them why you haven't been sent a C7 yet.

So what should happen next is:

Your hearing on 30th re the NMO. I would strongly advise legal advice for this hearing. It's important going forwards. I wouldn't say your ex has mental health issues as that will go down as you sounding sexist and making allegations against her (even if it's true). Let the court decide on that. The way the court works is, if it's that bad why aren't social services involved to verify her mental health issues.

Meanwhile you should hear from Cafcass about interviews, return the C7 and submit your own application.

Main thing is - what does the prohibited steps order prohibit? You coming anywhere near her? Or you coming anywhere near your daughter.

Start keeping diary notes. Eg if you have a video call or don't have a video call.

Hopefully things will move forwards a bit once the NMO hearing is over.

On the plus side, if you've already had a first hearing for the C100 and an interim order, that should speed up the process!
 

uzzy41

Well-known member
Ok I'm with you there. Things became too uncomfortable to be amicable.

Not surprised your head isn't in the right place! A lot going on. You've had every application possible thrown at you!

I'm still a bit confused about the C100 - a C100 can be for different types of order. Either for a Child Arrangements order, prohibited steps or specific issues usually - or two or three of those on one application. I am guessing the C100 was for the prohibited steps is that right? Or did it also include Child Arrangements?

If the C100 was a next day hearing then that was an urgent application, presumably claiming welfare issues. You should still be sent a C7 form to respond to that application. On this you can respond to the content of the C100 and also put in your own application. I would suggest submitting your own C100 for Child Arrangements and that also gives you the opportunity to state your view of the sitaiton. It could be worth phoning the court and asking them why you haven't been sent a C7 yet.

So what should happen next is:

Your hearing on 30th re the NMO. I would strongly advise legal advice for this hearing. It's important going forwards. I wouldn't say your ex has mental health issues as that will go down as you sounding sexist and making allegations against her (even if it's true). Let the court decide on that. The way the court works is, if it's that bad why aren't social services involved to verify her mental health issues.

Meanwhile you should hear from Cafcass about interviews, return the C7 and submit your own application.

Main thing is - what does the prohibited steps order prohibit? You coming anywhere near her? Or you coming anywhere near your daughter.

Start keeping diary notes. Eg if you have a video call or don't have a video call.

Hopefully things will move forwards a bit once the NMO hearing is over.

On the plus side, if you've already had a first hearing for the C100 and an interim order, that should speed up the process!
the c100 form was for CAO and PSO,

the way i have worded it in my statement is the applicant has suffered from mental health from the age of 23 and i have supported her in the challenging times as the best as i could as i could recognise that she was going through a difficult time ( she alleged that i used her mental health.
against her ) i have proof that i was actually being caring and supportive, she used to ask me to go over to her house because she couldn't put my daughter to sleep, or when things came really difficult she used to ask me to take my daughter from her house as she couldnt cope.

I am getting a barrister for the NMO hearing, because she has made so many contradictions, NMO never get dismissed unless they dont show up , but im going to try especially with evidence i have , basically she wants legal aid

Main thing is - what does the prohibited steps order prohibit? You coming anywhere near her? Or you coming anywhere near your daughter.

"not to take the child out of her care, or anyone she trust the child to be with and not to take her out of nursery"
 

Ash

Administrator
Staff member
Super Moderator
Ok. Good that you have a barrister for the NMO hearing. That should sort things. The prohibited steps order sounds fairly minor tbh and is temporary. It's basically telling nursery and others that you are not allowed to collect the child at the moment. Did you try and pick your daughter up from nursery after she stopped contact or something?

When you say the wording for your statement, is this for the NMO hearing? For her allegations, you need to use evidence that contradicts them - paper evidence is best. Courts tend not to like photos and won't accept videos. So if she says you came to her apartment when she didn't want you to for example, use an email or text screenshot that shows her asking you to come over to help put your daughter to bed.

It can help to try and work out what is going on with the other parent for them to do this - as a way of finding a strategy - rather than just reacting with defensiveness and anger (which is a normal reaction when attacked). ie is it jealousy? Is it fear? Is it anger and vindictiveness at some slight they perceive to have happened? That kind of thing. Then you can think of a way of putting things to make you sound like the reasonable thoughtful one.

Hard to explain and depends on the circumstances. But it sounds like she is acting as if she feels threatened - fear of losing the child for some reason? (ie when a new partner is on the scene with you). Or it's punishment of you for something she feels upset about.

To the courts, she is always the Mother - and unless social services are involved or she is sectioned, I don't think they will consider her mental health as a factor.
 

uzzy41

Well-known member
i asked nursery to take me off the finger print entry so my daughter can still attend nursery in order to give my ex peace of min, i only picked her up on Tuesdays as this was my day to pick her up.

i took so much abuse from her that i started to hate her and i didn't want to be around her.
 

Ash

Administrator
Staff member
Super Moderator
I know that feeling. Strangely it wears off over time - once you have your order and can enjoy your life with your daughter. Doesn't mean you have to have much contact with your ex - just brief occasional, civil communications by text or email over child arrangements - and have your separate lives otherwise.
 

Hackedoff_dad

Well-known member
Best advice I can give anyone is just let it be, respond when you are asked, keep calm, take time to heal, be humble, count your blessings, invest in yourself, don't waste your money on anything legal until you need to (its relentless out there - no one gives a crap about you or your kids - with out conflict like this they would not get paid!) (stands to reason) start saving some money (or tap your mates for some extra work) learn/study your opponent, be ready when the time comes, expect the unexpected, don't worry about things that are out of your control (as in all of it, primarily its up to the Judge) Think deeply about what would be best for your child, not what you want or think you are entitled too, think about your life and how you can adjust to best fit the trauma you are going through, take up a sport, go on holiday, DO NOT start drinking, DO NOT spend too much time on your own, if you are feeling Low talk to somebody, don't alienate yourself,

in short:
I have not seen my child for a long time and I doubt I will anytime soon, (all out of my control!) I have rang cafcass and spoken to them a few times they have not in so many words given me a few pointers and told me not to give up. (even like you I feel like it)

# I am no longer angry
# Everytime I look at a picture of my child I feel sad and lost (hopefully some day I can) - but I have accepted life has changed forever now!
# I struggle going to the supermarket, or out any where, where there are families (my heart breaks almost daily) so I move at night to minimise my trauma,
# I have saved and have made adjustments to my pension (more you squirrel away in your working pension the less the ex can take and further down the pipe it will come in useful)
# I joined a Gym - I try to get to the office for work and be around people, I try to keep my trauma to a minimum (people don't want to hear it daily)
# I am off away on holiday - I have someone there for me now which is massive! - hopefully another holiday, two weeks before the next court date.
# Summer is coming - I will try to enjoy it as much as I can although last two years I have missed out with my child due to the ex.

Remember nothing lasts forever, Keep your chin up, keep getting up, decompress, reset and reorganise, we are all here for you, I like many others have been right there where you are treading now, and also remember N E V E R G I V E U P !
 
Last edited:

Ash

Administrator
Staff member
Super Moderator
Your child will be finding it hard too and missing you and confused also. That is what kept me going and focused on getting results. Worrying about the child. Your child will be "waiting" and wondering when Dad will fix it.

You have been separated since 2019 and you've had 50/50 for two years - I think it's fairly obvious all these allegations came from nowhere due to something that upset her. You have a hearing coming up - Barrister will get the NMO sorted and hopefully get the Prohibited Steps order cancelled at the same time. And I would push again for video calls to be ordered until the next hearing.

Just tell it as it is - your daughter will wonder where you are and you are worried about the time and the stress she will be feeling, ask for interim time with your daughter and for the next hearing to be as soon as possible.

Once you have the allegations dismissed, matters will move forwards as if it's a standard application without any welfare issues. Once it is determined there are not welfare issues, it's a case of getting interim time back until a final hearing and then getting your order.

I would look at this upcoming hearing as an opportunity. Not just to get the NMO sorted but for your barrister to make a bit of a case to the Judge that the child has lived with the Father half the time for over two years and should not be being kept from the Father as there is no reason for. Assume the barrister will write a position statement for the hearing. Check that with him if he or she is going to. Either you or the barrister needs to submit a position statement for that hearing. You are allowed to submit a position statement to any hearing (usually no more than a couple of sides of A4 double line spacing.

When does your child start school? If it's this September, include that in the position statement saying that you should be involved in choice of school for your daughter (that is basic parental responsibility).

Another thought. Is your ex renting? Is she likely to move away? If so you may also want to think about a prohibited steps order to prevent her moving the child away. But having something to say you should be involved in choice of school will help.
 

uzzy41

Well-known member
Your child will be finding it hard too and missing you and confused also. That is what kept me going and focused on getting results. Worrying about the child. Your child will be "waiting" and wondering when Dad will fix it.

You have been separated since 2019 and you've had 50/50 for two years - I think it's fairly obvious all these allegations came from nowhere due to something that upset her. You have a hearing coming up - Barrister will get the NMO sorted and hopefully get the Prohibited Steps order cancelled at the same time. And I would push again for video calls to be ordered until the next hearing.

Just tell it as it is - your daughter will wonder where you are and you are worried about the time and the stress she will be feeling, ask for interim time with your daughter and for the next hearing to be as soon as possible.

Once you have the allegations dismissed, matters will move forwards as if it's a standard application without any welfare issues. Once it is determined there are not welfare issues, it's a case of getting interim time back until a final hearing and then getting your order.

I would look at this upcoming hearing as an opportunity. Not just to get the NMO sorted but for your barrister to make a bit of a case to the Judge that the child has lived with the Father half the time for over two years and should not be being kept from the Father as there is no reason for. Assume the barrister will write a position statement for the hearing. Check that with him if he or she is going to. Either you or the barrister needs to submit a position statement for that hearing. You are allowed to submit a position statement to any hearing (usually no more than a couple of sides of A4 double line spacing.

When does your child start school? If it's this September, include that in the position statement saying that you should be involved in choice of school for your daughter (that is basic parental responsibility).

Another thought. Is your ex renting? Is she likely to move away? If so you may also want to think about a prohibited steps order to prevent her moving the child away. But having something to say you should be involved in choice of school will help.
The welfare issues she came up was that I don’t have primary concern in regards to my daughters care, and she feels I’m going to fly out of the country with her ….

How can the PSO be cancelled when the judge has granted it to her, ??

Currently she’s living with her mum, can I counter act her pso that she can’t take her aboard ?

She wouldn’t start school till September 2023
 
Last edited:

Ash

Administrator
Staff member
Super Moderator
Ok so she's probably not yet preparing for changes due to school (although may be thinking ahead). As regards taking a child abroad. When there are no court orders, both parents require the consent of the other one to take the child abroad I believe. Why would she think you were going to leave the country? Are both of you from the Uk?

A court can always overturn a previous order by writing a new one which cancels anything previously ordered. For example when a final order is made, if it's for shared care with parents both collecting/dropping off from nursery/school then that would rule out the previous prohibited steps order and should say - this order supercedes all previous orders.

At the moment there is no real need to temporarily overturn this prohibited steps order if the court aren't ordering any interim time for you - and that is what you want ordered as soon as possible.

If you have genuine concerns that your ex may also leave the country then yes you could also ask for a prohibited steps order. For example if she is from another country and most of her family live abroad. It doesn't sound like a risk at the moment if she lives with her Mum.

I may be wrong but it sounds like because there was nothing formal in place (parenting agreement or court order) you were both basically acting indepently and perhaps not "coparenting" and communicating on some issues. You had every right to take your daughter on holiday, if it was agreed between you that your daughter would be with you during that period and that you were taking her on holiday. Ex's of course do it in their own time without even asking you! But if she took your daughter abroad on holiday when your daughter was supposed to be spending the week with you for example then that would also be bad.

What allegations has she made exactly for the NMO? I wouldn't worry about the PSO at this stage - but yes if interim time was ordered it could be overturned.
 

uzzy41

Well-known member
The NMO , abuse , controlling , cohesive behaviour.

Oh and financial control . And she’s fearful of her life.

Ive got messages from her hurling abuse at me , telling me I owe her “the least you can do after I ruined my life “ is to pay for xyz. If I said I didn’t have the money she went nuts .

But she did the exact same thing in in 2019 when we separated, same allegations but they arrested me and released me with no further action, ( I was seeing someone else ) because she said to the police she feels like I’m going to kill her, but she didn’t turn up to court hearing for NMO.

Then a month later she was going on holiday with me. She booked the tickets and hotel ( cohesive behaviour ) hmmm.

PSO , currently is in the interim ( no final decision ) she’s not even agreeing to supervised contact at a children’s centre.

She’s had said she feel welfare concern for my daughter because I’ve not communicated with her at the handover.

Yes we didn’t have anything in place formally, our communication came to a halt in the last 6/8 weeks. Prior to that I used to and see my daughter at the apartment she used to invite me over to look after my daughter and out her to sleep because she found it difficult. I have saved these messages aswell.
 
Last edited:

Ash

Administrator
Staff member
Super Moderator
I think you mean coercive control? It sounds complicated if you have a new partner and have been seeing your daughter at your ex's apartment. I think after the first NMO threat I would have not gone to her apartment! But presumably she wanted to be pally again.

She will have no evidence of any of this so it's a case of jumping through hoops until you get your final order.

Ask your barrister about interim contact in a contact centre being ordered at the upcoming NMO hearing - you are no threat to your daughter and he/she can argue that the absence will cause harm to the child.
 

uzzy41

Well-known member
I think you mean coercive control? It sounds complicated if you have a new partner and have been seeing your daughter at your ex's apartment. I think after the first NMO threat I would have not gone to her apartment! But presumably she wanted to be pally again.

She will have no evidence of any of this so it's a case of jumping through hoops until you get your final order.

Ask your barrister about interim contact in a contact centre being ordered at the upcoming NMO hearing - you are no threat to your daughter and he/she can argue that the absence will cause harm to the child.
Yes that’s what I will do , I think they judge may say this is a seperate matter to the CAO but no harm in trying .

Coercive control , yes that what I meant.
 

uzzy41

Well-known member
I have my first hearing in a couple of months , juts got a date .

I am getting a barrister , does anyone know what happens in the FHDRH , will they give me interim access at a contact center supervised ?
 
Top