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Da7thSon

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Sorry, this might be in the wrong location but I can't find an area where this might be relevant.

My ex-wife moves house without my consent and without permission from the court at the start of 2021 and we don't have our final hearing until 5th august to determine where the kids should live etc.

As part of her move, she changed my eldest's school, again without my consent and without the consent of the courts.

While I have been in telephone contact with my daughter's teachers during this time for parents' evenings and updates on her schooling, yesterday was the first time I have physically been to that school due to the distance involved.

I have had issues with the school before as they don't encourage remote parenting and don't use apps like see-saw so I can't see what my daughter day to day schooling is like. When I turned up at the school yesterday I was shocked by the school she is in, it is in a complete dump of an area, run down and deprived, and while she might be getting her education I am worried about the influence the others in her class will have on her along with other issues. Having gone from an outstanding school (ofsted rated) with loads of extracurricular activities and after-school clubs in a nice area with supportive staff before her move to this is not acceptable.

What can I do about this? Is this something I can raise at the final hearing as I certainly do not want my youngest going to that school when she is of school age in a year's time and ideally want my eldest moved ASAP.

thanks for listening

Andy
 
So basically she was removed from the previous OFSTED outstanding school without your consent, one year ago.

Some questions:
1. Did you know your ex was moving to another area before the beginning of the academic year?
2. Why did you not lodge a prohibited steps order to prevent your child from being removed to another area?
3. Why is it only now that you have gone to visit the school?
4. How far is the school from your home/her old area?
5. Why did your ex move?

These are questions that a court will ask. We can better help you if you answer these questions?

Thanks.
 
I remember some of this - you didn't know about prohibited steps at that time I believe. And we were discussing if you could get the kids moved back to you and I think I thought too much time had passed for that (due to all the court delays you had).

Hopefully you will get a 50/50 order somehow at the final hearing. Regardless of that, both parents have PR re education and if you feel the school is not good enough, then it's something you'd be expected to first discuss with your ex at mediation, and then via a specific issues application if you want a change of school.

I think I can see what you're thinking here. That if her current school is bad, and you wanted her returned anyway, she could come back to her good school and live with you.

I don't think that will happen - after all this time they will see the kids settled midweek with Mum - there could be a case to argue a change of school in Mum's current location. You don't have enough for sole residency, so shared care would be the best.

Write to the school and ask for copies of all school reports so far. If she's doing ok at school it could be a difficult argument to make. Primary school is it?

There's no reason why you can't negotiate with your ex/have mediation with your ex over schooling before the final hearing - then you might have more to add to your statement for final hearing.

So make sure you get your facts straight and then maybe start by emailing your ex saying you're concerned at how run down the primary school is and not the best place for your child. Before you do that though, get copies of school reports, because if she's doing fine that could undermine your argument. What is the Ofsted rating of this current school?
 
This is similar to my case in a number of ways. The court applies quite a consistent double standard on this. Applicant parent can put kids through any amount of upheaval and hardship to keep them safe from their father. Once it is shown that dad is not a danger after all, it would be totally unreasonable to change the newly established status quo.

You shoud not have to do this and it is totally unfair, but your best bet might be to relocate to within a reasonable distance of the new school.
 
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HI All,

My concern is that if they aren't relocated back here after the final hearing in just over 6 weeks away that my eldest (yes primary school) is not in a school suitable for her.

A breif summary of the questions.

I was assaulted by my ex.
She stated she would NOT relocate without my or the courts consent.
While waiting for court dates she moved and moved anyway (6 months after separation) at the start of Jan 2021.
I didnt know about the order and have multiple solicitors letters stating she would not move without my or the courts consent.
My did she move (and i shit you not), her reason to the courts at the first hearing was "because my washing machine broke"
Its about 110 miles away from my (over 2 hours).
I hadnt visited due to the whole lockdown. I was going to go to the Christmas concert but the school canceled it for parents to attend due to COVID (again), so this is the first opportunity if had to go (bearing in mind i need to arrange time off work to visit the school as i work mon - friday)

I also do not want this school just being a status Quo for my youngest to attend just because my eldest goes there.

I do not need to submit my final statmets to the courts for another 2 weeks. Is it worth includeing a section in that statment to say that i have concers over the school she is in and she should be moved to a new school for september 2022 if they do not agree to relocation?

Also just as regards the comment on mediation. My ex does not mediate.. i tired at the start of the process and she refused and went straight to court. She is their mum, therefore she is right.. this is the problem ive had with the entire relationship. She is a controlling person bordering on narcissism.

Many thanks
Andy
 
HI All,

My concern is that if they aren't relocated back here after the final hearing in just over 6 weeks away that my eldest (yes primary school) is not in a school suitable for her.

A breif summary of the questions.

I was assaulted by my ex.
She stated she would NOT relocate without my or the courts consent.
While waiting for court dates she moved and moved anyway (6 months after separation) at the start of Jan 2021.
I didnt know about the order and have multiple solicitors letters stating she would not move without my or the courts consent.
My did she move (and i shit you not), her reason to the courts at the first hearing was "because my washing machine broke"
Its about 110 miles away from my (over 2 hours).
I hadnt visited due to the whole lockdown. I was going to go to the Christmas concert but the school canceled it for parents to attend due to COVID (again), so this is the first opportunity if had to go (bearing in mind i need to arrange time off work to visit the school as i work mon - friday)

I also do not want this school just being a status Quo for my youngest to attend just because my eldest goes there.

I do not need to submit my final statmets to the courts for another 2 weeks. Is it worth includeing a section in that statment to say that i have concers over the school she is in and she should be moved to a new school for september 2022 if they do not agree to relocation?

Also just as regards the comment on mediation. My ex does not mediate.. i tired at the start of the process and she refused and went straight to court. She is their mum, therefore she is right.. this is the problem ive had with the entire relationship. She is a controlling person bordering on narcissism.

Many thanks
Andy

Most of us know at least one person like that!

What a horrible experience you have had. Position statement question depends on the bigger position you are taking. Have you looked at alternative schools they are in the catchment area for? If you are fighting for the kids to come back to you, that covers change of school. Did you report the assault?
 
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Most of us know at least one person like that!

What a horrible experience you have had. Position statement question depends on the bigger position you are taking. Have you looked at alternative schools they are in the catchment area for? If you are fighting for the kids to come back to you, that covers change of school. Did you report the assault?
Yes it was reported and I have a crime ref for the assault but didn’t press charges.
 
It is very important to stay child-focussed, but that assault, unreliability, and failure to put kids first, are relevant to the childrens' best interests. Some of the negatives regarding your ex probably need to be in the equation, but they should not be allowed centre stage in your statement. Maybe stage could be gently set in the statement and details revealed through cross-examination.

If you are litigant in person, try to get your head around the process on the day. I've only had one first hearing, one interim determination on evidence, and one final hearing. Others on here will have much more experienced on how to het things across in court. In my final hearing, I was not at all prepared to question my ex, did it off the top of my head. That was my downfall. I did not understand that the judge would be so passive, first two judges were much more involved and made sure I had a voice. Last one sat back in his chair to watch how I respond to getting mauled.

None of this is relevant if you will have a barrister.

Experienced people told me my final hearing would go a certain way, it did not. Ironically, without advice I paid for before the final hearing, I would have been better prepared.
 
I was just going to ask if you were using a barrister for the final hearing. Apologies if I've asked you that before - been a bit overloaded recently. In the situation you describe with such important outcomes at stake, if you can afford it then I would do that. If you do use a barrister you can have an initial consultation first. That won't be cheap - one consultation fee, one hearing fee. But they do a lot and are expert advocates.

I've found Barrister consultations invaluable. They know court workings inside out and will be straight with you about what's achievable, what isn't and what might be possible. You can then say to them what you want them to try for. But take on board what they say. Although it's just an initial consultation, from that point on you can send them everythign you've got, communicate in between then and the hearing, and feel more prepared that way. They put a huge amount of time into reading everything and preparing without charging any more than the fixed fee for the consultation and the fixed fee for the hearing. A fixed fee is worth having. They will do a skeleton argument, a position statement as well maybe and they can say things that an LIP can't - things that would be seen as too criticial of the Mother - a barrister can do that, an LIP can find it counts against them. They will also help you prepare for cross examination and cross examine your ex.

In this situation I think they'll advise you of the best thing to ask for re schools.

I know it's upsetting if you think a school isn't good enough. I'm having something similar myself right now. My ex has just decided my son needs to move schools (says it's my son's idea but I haven't seen him yet to ask). And chosen the worst school in the area. Because it''s convenient for her.
 
Officially No.. unofficially yes.. My solicitors (which I've had since the beginning) have already written my statements around 4 weeks ago ready for submission and they have arranged a barrister for me for the day. The other side doesn't know yet as technically I've been a litigant in person since oct last year, but we are keeping it under wraps until the statements are submitted.

Im only asking as the statements say both parties need to agree on schooling but don't raise anything around my eldest current school and it is only since last week since I've seen where she is. Don't really want to go back to the solicitors asking questions as it costs money as you all know. :)
 
The agreement on schools bit could be enough to set the stage if barrister knows what is going on. I'd think about compiling all letters promising that she will not move kids without leave of the court or your consent. You could send these to the solicitor with a brief note on what she has done following her promises. The solicitors need to be in the picture on what has happened so the barrister can be properly instructed for the day.
 
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If you don't want to change the statements at this stage, you could put the information in a position statement on the day of the hearing. But actually your barrister should be writing that, so you need to discuss that with barrister. Give them all the information and they will work on that area (possibly as part of a skeleton argument and/or position statement) along with other arguments.

So are you ceasing to use the solicitors once statements have been submitted - and then just using the barrister for the hearing?

A couple of things. You can instruct the solicitors that they are only acting for you until statements are submitted and then they are "disinstructed" - you need to do that in writing. A short email will do. You can then inform the other side that you no longer have a solicitor acting for you (in writing).

You then only need to inform the court, that a barrister will be acting for you at the hearing (a few days before the hearing). It's up to the court to inform the other side.

If the solicitors have found the barrister for you, check them out. They all have bios under the chambers. It can be money well spent or not. Do you know if your ex is using a barrister? If so then you need one that's better! Any Barrister costing £1000 for the day or less, is money down the drain basically. Even 2k. If they charge 3 to 4 k for a full day hearing then they will be worth the money (providing you've checked the bio and/or had a recommendation). Sadly there are also flakey barristers or biased barristers too. If they have a preference for fighting for Mothers.

When is your hearing and what region is the hearing taking place? If I know of any others have recommended (ie used with succcess) in your area, I can message you. Have you met or spoken to this barrister yet? Perhaps you're already confident about that, so apologies if you are.
 
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