Remarrying...

[Hobnob]

Me again, this time the topic for opinions is how to deal with the issue of remarriage when your ex is already alienating your kids and obstructing contact with them. For background on that, please see my other post under advice for a complex case in child arrangements...

My partner and I are getting married in 3 weeks time. We are both anti-wedding so we aren't doing it in a conventional way. There are no guests, no service, none of the 'traditional' things. We do the legal bit with 2 witnesses which takes 10 minutes and then we have a special day planned together.

We've been together for 3 years (we started as an affair), officially a legitimate couple for 2 years and we live together outside of the UK with her 2 daughters, my step-daughters. Due to the affair, my ex-wife hates my partner, which is understandable and she is entitled to her opinion and feelings. However, the level of hatred, bitterness, jealousy and the actions she has since taken are completely disproportionate to her being betrayed and the ending of the marriage.
My children have known about my partner for over 2 years. When my ex found out about the affair she forced me to tell my children. My youngest was only 5 at that time. Naturally they were incredibly upset. I didn't feel we should be involving the children in our grown-up problems but she made so many threats I felt I had no choice but to do what she demanded. Not only did she make me tell the kids but she also informed everyone we knew, and I mean everyone, neighbours, friends, family, and even all of the school teachers. I was the outcast and my partner was, and still is, called every name under the sun, scum, mistress, HER, etc...
At the time through guilt and shame, I fully understood and sympathised, and although I didn't agree with her reaction, as I wanted the children to be kept out of it, I thought she would eventually calm down and after the divorce would move on and accept the situation.
This has never happened and the hatred is as potent now as it was in the beginning.

Because of those events and a very acrimonious split, my children were initially very wary about meeting my partner and I was very cautious too. We didn't broach this for a long time. Several months after the split, I started to carefully introduce the idea to them that I was with my partner, what she is really like, and was met with mixed reactions. It was clear that my ex had been talking to the kids about my partner as they knew things that hadn't come from me and she'd even been showing the kids pictures of her.
However, they were open to meeting my partner and my partner's children at some point down the line. Unfortunately it never happened as covid came along.

Fast forward to now, over the last 5 months I've seen my youngest child for 3 visits for the first time in over 14 months, and my middle child for one visit in over 18 months. I haven't seen my eldest child in all that time and none of my children currently speak to me on the phone or in messages.
My ex has also repeatedly told me in emails that I am not to talk about my life, where I live, my partner or my step-daughters and I'm not to introduce them unless she allows it.
When I've spoken to my daughters about these things during my recent visits they have shown enormous interest in my life, asking lots of questions and expressing huge enthusiasm about visiting my home in the future. My youngest in particular has had lots of contact with my partner via phone calls and video calls whilst I've had her and even made me buy presents for my partner which she chose and wrote on the gifts to my partner. They have both spoken positively about accepting that mummy and daddy are divorced and the new relationships on both sides. My ex has a partner and he lives with her and my kids along with his own young daughter. (I was only informed of this by my youngest). After my visits the kids have been interrogated by my ex and she has sent me emails claiming they are unhappy and I'm to stop any of these discussions.

Getting married will undoubtedly be a trigger for the ex to alienate further. This is something I want to tell my children as I don't want them to find out retrospectively or via a third-party and to then feel further excluded from my life. But I also have no way of telling them beforehand in person unless I do so in an email or WhatsApp message which isn't appropriate. I want to be able to explain to them and reassure them that it doesn't change how much I love them as no doubt she will spin it that I only care about my "new family".
Communication with my ex has completely broken down despite all of my best efforts to co-parent and be civil. Whatever way she finds out that we have married, her reaction will be the same, (and she will find out as she uses flying monkeys to stalk us), further alienation of the children and hostility to me and my partner.
As we are going to court for my CAO application, do I need to be seen to inform her of my marriage in relation to how it affects the kids and how I get the opportunity to tell the kids? I can show plenty of evidence which shows her refusal to co-parent and her hypocrisy in refusing to allow my children to meet my partner, for whom there are no safeguarding issues whatsoever (this hasn't yet been broached by the ex but we are fully expecting allegations as she's already alluded to threats).
I suspect she will accuse me of keeping the kids in the dark and use it against me with both them and the court. I'm trying to prevent that but don't want to make the situation worse than it already is.

 

[Ash]

"My ex has also repeatedly told me in emails that I am not to talk about my life, where I live, my partner or my step-daughters and I'm not to introduce them unless she allows it."

So she is only letting you see the kids if your partner isn't involved. Which is why you need the court order. Frankly, and I also understand the woman scorned thing, she needs to get over it. It's been long enough and she has a new partner herself now. Time to move on from hatred and bitterness. And I am sure the court will look at it that way as well when they know the history. Water under the bridge - both parents have new partners now - she should be putting the kids relationships first.'

Also completely understand the anxiety about rocking the boat. Actually it is partly why my partner and I didn't get married. Not the sole reason - she was wary of marrying again anyway having been through a bad divorce, and we just decided the hassle would be too much (had a lot of hassle from my ex). Although we did consider just doing it and not telling anyone . Which may still happen.

It's an option. Although it seems normal to be open and tell everyone, if you're having a small private wedding you could possibly just decide not to tell anyone. I'm not sure about that. On your C100 you could refer to your partner as your fiancee to show you're getting married without mentioning dates. That'll come out by the time of the Cafcass report probably.

So timing maybe. Of course she can't stop your new wife being involved with your kids and the court wouldn't expect that or allow that to happen. But you want to avoid things getting worse meanwhile.

Just read back and you said she'd find out anyway. So maybe just let that happen? And if she says why didn't you tell the kids, then you can say you were waiting for the opportunity to see them face to face.

I have one idea! How about emailing the ex saying you are remarrying and would like the children to be there. Now obviously she will say no and make a huge stink, but that conveys to your kids that you wanted them to be involved - as opposed to maybe her saying he didn't want you involved.

Maybe get the C100 submitted soon, before the wedding, then broach the subject and say you'd like to see the children and talk to them and you'd like them to come to be there and it's just a small affair. Because then you've set the ball rolling to getting an interim order to see the kids within a few weeks.

 

[Ash]

However much your ex goes nuclear, it will be temporary. And it could provide you with some good evidence for court. If you email her letting her know and asking to see and speak to the children so you can let them know personally, and would like them to be there. And then you get a very nasty one back - then that could be good evidence.

You'd need to word it carefully to work in your favour.

Maybe something like - I'm just letting you know so you don't hear it on the grapevine, that I'm getting married soon. I hope we can both accept that now we both have new partners, life moves on a bit and let bygones be bygones. I very much wish to have good communication with you, the Mother of our children and for the children to be able to have good relationships with both their parents and both extended families. I will agree, as you have stipulated, to see the children on my own for now but would like to progress to them staying with us over the next few months. I hope you will agree.

 

[Hobnob]

However much your ex goes nuclear, it will be temporary. And it could provide you with some good evidence for court. If you email her letting her know and asking to see and speak to the children so you can let them know personally, and would like them to be there. And then you get a very nasty one back - then that could be good evidence.

You'd need to word it carefully to work in your favour.

Maybe something like - I'm just letting you know so you don't hear it on the grapevine, that I'm getting married soon. I hope we can both accept that now we both have new partners, life moves on a bit and let bygones be bygones. I very much wish to have good communication with you, the Mother of our children and for the children to be able to have good relationships with both their parents and both extended families. I will agree, as you have stipulated, to see the children on my own for now but would like to progress to them staying with us over the next few months. I hope you will agree.

Hi Ash,

I took your advice and sent an email to the ex, pretty much like the one you suggested above. Perfectly civil, friendly and reasonable, and letting her know that I didn't want the children to find out third-hand or retrospectively about us getting married, to avoid them feeling hurt or excluded. I also included the part about progressing their time with me to overnight stays with my two girls who I currently only spend time with once a month for a few hours at the weekend, and for her to encourage my son to also come along, and asked if she could help to facilitate a call between my son and I, who I haven't spoken to now since January, as he refuses to speak to me (FHDRA scheduled for early May re Child Arrangements).

I'm next due to see my children in April and she's already intimating that my middle daughter won't come, my son has never agreed to come with me and I've no idea whether my youngest will come as I've had no telephone contact with any of my children since my last visit a couple of weeks ago. So whether I get the opportunity to tell them about the marriage is another matter... (I have emailed the judge as per your suggestion re the breakdown in telephone contact and requested an urgent hearing and I'm now chasing the court on that).

So, back to this email to the ex about the remarriage...
I had a rather hostile reply from her (guess she forgot to congratulate us), which stated, as we suspected, that she already knew over a month ago from a third-party, (who that could be we have no idea as we have no contact with any of her friends or family members). That it's none of her concern. She said "luckily" it wasn't disclosed to her by this "third-party" in front of the kids. This worries me as it suggests that potentially these types of conversations COULD take place in front of the kids.
She also berated my partner for having shared news of our engagement on social media. She accused my partner of having "announced" on social media that we are engaged and said it was "inappropriate" as I haven't yet told the kids - chance would be a fine thing! What my partner actually did was shared some photos from Valentine's Day and one was a picture of the ring. She didn't formally announce anything. Ex can only have found this information by using a fake account or a flying monkey (third-party we are unaware of), to stalk and monitor my partner's social media page, as my ex and all her known associates are blocked from my partner's FB account.
I'm worried she says this as my children are too young to have access to social media, my ex shouldn't be able to monitor and stalk us in this way, so also shouldn't have access, and the implication my children could find out that way is yet another threat from her. It's not the first time she's brought up things from my partner's social media (my partner is careful never to post anything at all about my kid's), always stating that some third-party told her unsolicited what my partner had posted. I don't see why my partner should be controlled, she uses social media to keep in touch with friends and family and keep them up to date with life, pictures of her own children, my step-kids, as we live outside of the UK, so extended family and friends can keep in touch. It's her page and she's not doing anything wrong or illegal/offensive, and doesn't need to justify using a social media platform. I don't use social media at all and never have, but I guess stalking my partner is her only way to try to gather information about the both of us.

My ex completely ignored my request to progress my time with the kids to longer or to include my son, she ignored my request to help facilitate a call with my son, she ended with her usual catchphrase, "I will continue to encourage the children to speak to you and see you". Never once has she outlined how she encourages them, or accepted that whatever she is doing is not working. Although I know she's doing the absolute opposite despite her claims to the contrary. She even told me that Cafcass agree with her that she shouldn't force the kids to speak to me so she's not doing anything wrong.

So all that being said, am I best to ignore her response about me getting married or do I need to do anything about these points she's raised for evidence for court? The likelihood is I won't get to tell my kids about it before we get married because I won't get the opportunity to speak to them, at least certainly not all 3 of them. And once I've told one, the others will know. Either way, if I tell them, or don't tell them due to lack of opportunity to do so, all of this will be used against me.

 

[Ash]

Hi. Sorry about her email - but it's good evidence! Yours to her and her response. Firstly it's hostile. Secondly she confirms that she or someone else spies or stalks on your partner on social media.

I might not have talked about increasing time with the kids, in the same email as telling her you're getting married though - one thing at a time. But it probably wouldn't have made any difference. What comes across is her slight obsession about it and that's why her email is good evidence as it does show her attitude and suggest this is why she is preventing time with the children. She tries to cover herself by hinting that it's because you have a new partner that they feel the same as her, but she "tries to encourage".

Print it out.

I'd probably let the dust settle for a few days and then send another one specifically about the kids being with their Father on the wedding day. What do you think. You might get a big no again but it's more evidence.

And repeating the request to progress time "with clear dates agreed" and say you see no reason why the children wouldn't want to spend time with both parents.

Social media can be tricky. If it's FB then to be honest anyone can see the posts by googling her name unless you go through the ridiculously long privacy section and tie things down to nothing seen except friends or you only. For example anyone looking at the profile can see the whole list of friends, even if the posts are private - so could contact one of them and ask them questions casually ...

 

[Ash]

"She even told me that Cafcass agree with her that she shouldn't force the kids to speak to me so she's not doing anything wrong."

My ex does that as well - I almost believed it for a while - but it depends what your ex said to Cafcass and I believe some Cafcass officers do say noof course you can't force them blah blah. But it depends how it is put to them., Just ignore that comment as it's common for an alienating parent to claim Judge or Cafcass told them xyz and it be their own ego talking - lying basically.

Anyway back to your wedding. I had a thought that after the dust settles in a few days, you write with a specific date request more confidently rather than asking please kind of thing. eg

Dear Ex Name "Please can you ensure that the children are available for me to pick up on x date for two days, so they can stay with me the day before and the day of my wedding - as this is a family occasion. Many thanks and kind regards"

That is unless you don't want her to know the date but I would do that and the other thought is - you could probably get an urgent order to see the children because of the wedding - a specific issues order. It's an important matter relating to a parent and part of their lives. Specific issues is usually for - holidays, educational matters, religious disagreements (ie which faith children practice). The wedding could count as a holiday. It would be worth a try just to get some time with them. But a bit of a long shot maybe.

 

[Ash]

The reason her email is such good evidence is the timings - if she's already known for some time, why didn't she tell you? And it ties up with cancelling visits with the kids etc or a phone call or whatever. That's why keep careful records of what happened when. Look back to the date ex says she found out via someone else and see what else happened that week - with ex or kids arrangements or phone calls. That's hpw you present evidence in your final statement.

Eg on X date I let Mrs Ex know that I was to remarry so she or the children did not hear the news elsewhere. Mrs Ex replied that she already knew since x date and also confirmed there had been some snooping of my partner's Facebook account - see exhibit a. (Exhibit a being your email to her, her reply with a significant point highlighted). Then - on x date (ie the date your partner said she had known since) I was suddenly informed by Mrs Ex that the children didn't want to see me, having just had a lovely time with them two days before. See exhibit b. (Exhibit b needs to be evidence of you having the kids with you and evidence of her saying they don't want to see you blah blah, shortly after the visit). If you don't have a text or email showing it was agreeed the kids were with you that couple of days, then use a diary note or a receipt for somewhere you stayed or something you did. Which is why diary notes are important to be written at the time, to show what happened when.

Of course she is trying to make the case that the children refuse to see you because you have a new partner, but it is very clear that it is the Mum that is influencing this (or making it up) and is having difficulty with it. While that's understandable she should be putting the kids first.

 

[Ash]

I'd even be a bit politely firm at some point and say that as it costs you x amount of money to travel from x place to x place each time (flights presumably?) and need to also pay for a hotel, it is imperative that clear and firm arrangements are made and kept to for the children to be allowed to spend that time with you, and that you have booked x date to x date and please can she drop the children off at x place.

That it is their right to be allowed to spend regular time with both their parents, and in their best interests, and you ask that we move on with acceptance that things change, and will change again when she has a new partner but there is no reason you and she cannot be amicable re arrangements for the children, who still need their Dad.

No-one can then say you didn't try. And that is also evidence that despite that being put to her, she didn't sort it out.

 

[C&ADad]

This is almost the quintessential "impossible situation". If you attempt to be respectful it will be taken as softness/ weakness, if you are firm it will be taken as hostility, and either way its the kids who will be dragged into it & suffer.

I think Ash has summed it up very well. Document, file- and take a bit of a step back now for a few days. Don't rise to it, try not to even think about what she's up to too much. Like the thing with Cafcass- my ex told the court & expert I was due to be arrested the following day. Everyone else was saying "she's lying", but I was too close to it so couldn't see the reality & I was confused, worried and it derailed me for a while- but it was not true. Don't be thrown off track by these things, it can end up with bad decisions being made.

The reality here is..

1. Your ex is disrupting communications & making veiled threats about what she's going to say and do, and it looks like a degree of 'stalking' is going on.
2. The children as a result are being denied a meaningful relationship with their father
3. You have a court date and therefore some time to prep your case to reverse 1 & 2. This is critical.

Aside from that there aren't too many 'controllables' at this stage.

So I'd rise above all the noise now, its a holding pattern until court. Have the calls with your kids, but be prepared for the inevitable on them, when you communicate with ex follow Ash's ideas (sounds underhanded but you can use these to gather responses that strengthen your case), and prep for court. If there are too many backwards & forwards emails shown to a judge, that can in my experience make it too messy for that judge to see the reality, so each email should be carefully worded. I think the idea of mentioning costs is very good.

The unfortunate reality is that there isn't all that much you can do until a court puts an order in aside from gather up your evidence, so its a dual objective- prepare a solid, reasonable, well backed up case, and have the strength to deal with the sadness & emotions until then, you will have your day soon enough now.

 

[Ash]

Assertively firm but polite is ok. Although you could still get accused of "bullying" and "controlling" but it's perfectly clear that it is polite but firm and not that at all.