Need some guidance

[Kyle]

She has said that If I stop the court case then she will speak to the kids who may then wish to see me and that we go back to what the arrangements were before.

Do not stop the court application. She is emotionally blackmailing you and using your kids to control your actions.

It's very likely they have no idea what she is planning in her head so don't let her get inside yours!

You need that order in place to stop this and assert your rights which will limit her ability to control you. She doesn't have any "power" over your children. This is all based on what is right for kids and they have the right to spend time with both of their parents.

Sit tight. Talk to us. We all have to play the waiting game and this is one of the hardest parts of this process. Don't let the time consume you with worry and anxiety caused by overthinking or catastrophising (when someone assumes that the worst will happen). That can cause all sorts of additional problems for you, as I well know.

Invest that emotional currency in getting smart with the system. Get better at understanding it than her. Don't let yourself "suffer."

Put it all down from time to time and go and do something you enjoy. Try to fill this waiting period with healthy enjoyment not the trauma of the separation. It's not easy I know but you have to keep reminding yourself that time is always moving forward. The time will go slower if all you do is watch it. Your court date will come around soon enough.

 

[Ray_k]

Thanks guys, appreciate the support it really helps.

 

[Ray_k]

I have finally got a date fora FHDRA, its been 2 months since I last saw or spoke to my kids, the date for this hearing is end August which is another 2 months. This will also be conducted via a video hearing.

There’s a few things in the letter that I need help in understanding.

Under recitals it states that the court expects the parties to attend Child inclusive mediation prior to the hearing as per Cafcass recommendation - is this a must? As I had asked the ex following the cafcass report and she said she couldn’t afford it and that the kids don’t wish to see me currently anyway and don’t agree with my proposal. Also, I don’t want the kids involved as part of any mediation as it will be pointless because they’ll be under undue pressure and stress. So the question is, does this need to be done and what happens if we don’t?

Secondly, it states that both parties must send to each other and the Court a week before the FHDRA their proposals for a final Order - will this just be the same as what I have put in my C-100 application, I might need some help with this closer to the time.

Finally, it states that both parties must attend the separated parenting information programme and that the court shall send this order to the activity provider with the parties contact details - does this mean that I should expect some info on this as to when to attend?

I would appreciate some guidance on what steps I should take and what is expected of me on the back of this letter and what will happen next.

 

[Ash]

Ok so this is the court order for what happens next. There is a difference between what it says under "Recitals" and what it says under "It is ordered that" or "The court orders". I found that out that hard way, thinking I had a detailed interim order for time before final hearing, only to find out it wasn't ordered it was "agreed". It was headed "agreements" and under Recitals.

Recitals are not orders. They are guidelines basically. Things they recommend to happen (and are saying should happen). But not breached in the same way an order can be a breach. Having said that a breach of a recital is still a kind of breach (unless there is a reasonable excuse).

As it says the court "expects" the parties to attend child inclusive mediation then that is what it is - they expect this to happen. Ie even though it's not ordered they want to see this has been tried before the next hearing. Having said that - they have based this on something the ex has pushed for presumably? Was this after a gatekeeping hearing or after an actual hearing? (Sorry I haven't read back).

In this situation, I would suggest you contact a mediator and go for a mediation session on your own, explain to the mediator that the court have suggested child inclusive mediation, but you have concerns about this as you feel the children are being heavily pressured by the Mother and you don't even get to see them to discuss this with them or ask them how they feel about it. Choose your mediator carefully. Suggest that the mediator invites the ex to the next appointment on her own (to discuss whether child inclusive mediation is appropriate). Hopefully your ex won't go .

You can then put in your next position statement, that you attended mediation but the mediator felt child inclusive mediation wasn't appropriate and Mrs Ex also did not take up the invitation to mediation.

If she does take it up and go along then obviously she will be pushing for the children to be involved.

But as I said - choose your mediator carefully, I had one awful one who tried to pressgang me into having child involved despite me having told her how alienated my son was at that time! And told her it would be hell for him and wouldn't achieve anything. I changed mediators. I actually went with the same company but contacted them and asked who their senior mediator was and said I didn't feel there was good rapport wth the current one. They basically said they didn't have a "senior" mediator (even though their website said they did!). But made me an appointment with another one with a lot of experience. Who I have to say was absolutely brilliant and no nonsense. Saw her twice on two different occasions. The first time I could see she was skilled. My ex didn't go so it didn't happen. The second time was for an urgent application and she actually said - just apply to court, her behaviour is outrageous and the court might even award costs against her.

 

[Ray_k]

Thanks Ash,

I’ve not had any previous hearings, due to courts being busy the cafcass report was done first and then this is the first date i’ve had for a hearing outlining the requirements, which doesn’t help as i’ve not had a chance to ask for interim contact and will have been over 4 months by the time I can request this.

I’ll book some time in with a mediator and get them to contact her, atleast I can be seen as the one trying to reach an agreement.

 

[Ash]

It sounds like it was a gatekeeping hearing that led to this order being issued - and followed on from the cafcass report. This seems to be the norm these day. After Cafcass letter there is a gatekeeping hearing (which parents don't attend) between Cafcass and a Judge or legal adviser, who then issues directions as to what happens next. In your case what happens next is the first hearing with SPIPP course and mediation before hand (fairly standard but child inclusive mediation is unusual).

 

[Ray_k]

Thanks Ash,

I have had my SPIPP course and spoken to the mediators again who have since contacted the ex inviting her to a Miam. She has now said she is willing to attend but can’t afford it. The option I have is to pay for her sessions as well or maybe find another mediator who can use legal aid even though I don’t qualify but could she?

I don’t really see any use in paying for her mediation as she won’t agree to anything anyway, is it worth doing and stumping up the cost considering the courts expect mediation prior to the FHDRA or should I just wait until then?

 

[Ash]

If she is eligible for legal aid for mediation then you both get it free. After the initial cost of the MIAM. So what you could do is agree to pay for her MIAM (I know!) which is where the legal aid assessment takes place. That way you can at least say to the courts that you did have mediation! The income level is quite high for legal aid for mediation - about £2000 a month I think - but if she has any savings over a certain amount, she won't be eligible.

 

[Ray_k]

Hi, she agreed to mediation which I had last week and was pretty painful being a shuttle session. It’s been over 3 months since I seen the kids now and I have my first hearing end of this month. She has agreed to let me see the kids on Sat but has insisted that they do not wish to stay the night with me and that I should drop them back off if they want to go back, just feels like she’s getting them to not want to spend time with me. I was going to ask for interim contact in the hearing, can I still request this even though she has now allowed me to see them? Have asked for another mediation session to agree all the points but she wasn’t keen and kept saying she is only doing what the kids want. My concern is that they don’t want to disappoint her and will not want to stay with me in the future.

I need to send a statement to the courts and a copy to her outlining my proposals for a court order, need to get this across a week before the hearing, is this the same as what I have put in my c100 application? Will need some help with this if possible.

 

[Ash]

You can still ask for an interim order - at the moment what’s happening is all on her terms and she could change her mind at any time. Hope you get to have a good time with the kids on Saturday. Avoid heavy discussions - unless they ask questions - snd focus on having real quality time. If they ask maybe just say Mum and Dad don’t agree on what’s best for them so someone is helping sort it out.

Happy to help with statement. Is it a position statement?

 

[Ray_k]

Hi Ash,

I took your advice onboard and was great to finally see the kids, they were fine and had a great time even if it was only for the day.
I have had a further mediation session, we agreed the regular contact from Friday to Sunday, she’s not sure about the holidays and has proposed I keep them for 3 or 4 days in Christmas and then see what the kids want for the the future holidays, also that I should only be able to take kids to my parents where I am currently staying only if kids want to and that I should check with her also if decide to so she can ensure some measures are in place. Still not really comfortable with this as I should be able to take them wherever I want without conditions, didn’t get to agree on some of the other aspects but the mediator said she will put this in a memorandum that can be taken to court.

I need to send proposals to the court for a final order in next few days, can I add what I want along with the memorandum?

 

[Ash]

That sounds positive. Suspect the ex has been getting nervous now court date approaching so let you see the kids - it would have looked really bad for her if you'd said - she witheld them for 3 months and refused any time. Still do that though! Either that or the mediator has been helpful. Maybe mediator said to her - he'll get the time ordered so you might as well agree it.

So she's agreed to every other week-end (is this just in a hotel or at your parents?) But won't agree to holidays. And that business of "if the kids want to" needs knocking on the head.

What's the memorandum?

 

[MagicJ]

Hi @Ray_k ,

Was reading through this and found a lot of similarities and differences between our situations.

The main similarity being, like all these cases, a controlling mother, I didn't see any posts after this one - how did your FHDRA go, your childcare case seemed pretty straightforward, did you get a good judge who knocked it all on the head and provided a good interim order?

Was this heard in the Midlands? How was your court experience in that regard?

If you went to a Final Hearing then that should have happened by now, did you get the order you wanted?

Apologies for all the questions, really asking to see if you managed to stop the ex from controlling the children's bed to have equal and fair access to both parents!

All the Best!