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My story and advice needed

C

ConfusedAndHeartbroken

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Hi all, been looking for somewhere to get advice from a guys perspective especially with people who have gone through similar.

I have known my ex-fiancee for 15 years, been together for 7. We split in Jan after she decided to hand notice in on the house we shared as a family home with our 3 year old. We have had 3 miscarriages over the term of our relationship, most recently Oct and Feb. We also lost our first born sadly at just before 6 months old.

I personally went through grief councilling for this, she bottled it all up and never spoke to me about it really.

The reasons behind the split are multiple, whilst all valid quite cosmetic.

I was a heavy cannabis smoker, we were both distant from each other and by her words, living like friends under the same house. Sexual contact was minimal but still there, couple of times a month. We worked opposite shifts, faults on both parts led to no time spent together outside of our child. We had financial issues, living beyond our means, her smoking cigarettes, me my cannabis leading to us having to borrow from her parents on a regular basis towards the end of the month. We both disliked the house we was living in, work needed doing landlord dragged their feet and never did anything in a timely manner.

We lived together still after the split and waiting on notice for the house, during this time arguments happened but the majority of the time we spent together doing as couples should do and to her own words, if this had happened a few weeks prior we would not have gotten to where we are. I cut down to just nighttime with my smoking, have since quit and been off it since Jan.

She moved back to parents, I moved into a friend's, we both have an opportunity to now save a great deal of money and better our lives.
She always swore she would rather be on the streets than go back to her mums.

Early this month we have done a coffee date, we also spent mothers day together as a family, play centre and a family meal, leading to her staying over at mine for the night and one thing lead to another that night. I love yous were still there. 2 days later, near total radio silence barring little snippets about our son. Layer that week she has told me that night together made her realise she was completely done and had no interest in making it work due to multiple issues on her side and not having headspace for it (recent medical concerns). There has been hints at "never say never" "don't know what will happen in the future".

We're now about two weeks on from the "I'm done done" conversation, I have a feeling she is talking to someone new and has replaced her need for my attention with him but this is pure speculation

I am working to better myself for me and my son. I have had a promotion at work, I am saving money, I am looking at options and availability to learn to drive and have plans to start gym again at the end of the month. This is primarily for me, but in the back on my mind I can't help but think this will show her I've improved longer term.

I want my family back, I want her back. I have signed up to counselling again for support through this, I really want to be a better man for the 3 of us as a whole.

After some extremely difficult conversations over when/how child care will work I am having him weekends, which kills me but is all I can manage at the moment due to work commitments.

I am hoping, Improve myself, give her time to potentially sow some oats if that's what she needs, that we can do things as a family for starts and possibly progress back to something more. More and more reading I do, it seems like a highly unlikely circumstance.

I think from her perspective at the moment she is living her best life after the split, but that this will be short lived and the cracks will start to show again at her mum and dad's, her work will mean her weekends will be limited for freedom, all of these things leading her to realise the grass is not always greener.

Any suggestions on how to cope, progress and learn would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry for the length, it's been a hard journey!!
 
Just a quick reply for now. Sorry to hear this - it’s tough. Good you’re seeing your son at weekends at least and it’s important to keep things amicable even if hard emotionally.

If you want to get back together then you can just hope. It’s a difficult one but if you’re showing keen it maybe gives her more power. All I can suggest is start living your own life a bit and she may become more interested again - and you benefit from that too.
 
I'm trying to keep it just about him when speaking. We're still on amicable terms at the moment but I can feel that slipping away.

I'm confused as to if this is just a test, if she just needs space pretty much everything. As you can probably tell from the post I'm rather desperate at the moment and I want to just be better in general. Given we will never be out of each others lives, I'm just hoping she can see the change and maybe give me a chance down the line, but I think that hope needs to go away because it eats me inside
 
Welcome to the forum. Thank you for such a careful description of the situation.

You are in a tough spot. Despite this, it sounds like you're doing loads of positive things. Do you have the child from Friday to Monday every week? If you do, that is not a bad position to be in.

Informal arrangements are risky. You are each vulnerable to the other's whim. If your regular time with the child is threatened in any way you might have to act quickly and be more assertive than you have been so far.
 
It is informal, recently there was talks over issues and I had to explain that I would take her to mediation, which she said she would not attend. So I think if it turns sour, that it will go badly quickly.

I was very assertive during these talks to let her know not all on her own terms. But there is a high possibility soon that my circumstances change and we would need to go 50/50. I highly doubt I will get that without a fight
 
I think what Resolute meant by assertive, was get the Child Arrangements legalised formally. IME getting an assertive with an ex just pees them off and then they can mis-use their power to mess about and stop you seeing the children. You can get that sorted if it happens but it can take a long time and it's very hard not being able to see your kids. It's also quite common for ex's to do this when they start a new relationship.

I agree that informal arrangements are risky and if there have been some issues recently, then I think it's worth applying to court to formalise the arrangements in an order - and also ask for a "lives with both parents" shared care order (ie 50/50). If you want that.

Before you can do that you need to have tried mediation. The only legal requirement is to have attended a MIAM (the first mediation assessment meeting which you go to on your own). The mediator then contacts your ex and invites her to the second appointment. If she declines, you get signed off and that mediation sign off lasts for four months.

However it's also an idea to have a court application already prepared and ready to go as soon as you get the sign off, because these days, ex's have a good idea that if you start mediation, you're thinking of applying to court. So you have to be careful not to tell her too much. Otherwise she could put an application in first and that can wrong foot you in the process. I always think it's best to be "the applicant" and have your story seen and heard before anything starts.

Now you might not be wanting to think about this if you were hoping the relationship wasn't over. But I think it's important. If you get back together in the future, after getting a Child Arrangements order - fine. It doesn't really matter then. But right now you don't want someone controlling if and when you see your children.

Assume you're on the birth certificate and have PR? If so then, without any court orders in place, you're both equal and neither has "residency" - in theory. In practice, Mothers behave like the resident parent and society sees that as normal. If you called the police they'd say it was a court matter. So if she stops the kids coming - there's nothing you can do - except apply to court. If you kept them and didn't let them go back, then she'd call the police and say they'd been abducted or get an urgent court application saying they're at risk (they can do that at a day's notice with no evidence).

Then your path through court becomes much harder - you're seen as an abuser just for keeping your own children. Whereas a Mother isn't.

Equality goes out of the window in these situations.

However if you just apply to court while things are ok now, with a measured tone in the application about hoping the court can assist with agreement for Child Arrangements - and you have a history of every week-end - then you're in a good position to have a smooth ride and possibly get 50/50.

So personally - I would have that MIAM now. It'll last four months. Then text your ex and say politely you'd really like to try mediation to draw up a parenting agreement and you've contacted a mediator and they will be in touch. Then it doesn't come out of the blue when the mediator contacts her. If she says no, you get signed off. If that happens, I'd put your application in straight away. If she attends mediation you can talk about agreeing arrangements for a consent order.

Because a parenting agreement isn't worth the paper it's written on. It's just an informal arrangement again. A consent order is like a parenting agreement that is legalised. It's drawn up as a Child Arrangements order, both sides have a solicitor as a one off to approve the wording, then it's sent to court for sealing. So basically no need to apply to court at all - it's exactly the same order, but achieved by consent out of court.

If she declines a consent order then she has her own motivations and you can't rely on informal arrangements,

We usually say - don't move out without a Child Arrangements order in place. Meanwhile try to keep things polite and amicable over arrangements for kids.

I noticed when you said you were tied together for life via the kids. That is only the case if you get to see the kids and unfortunately some ex's want to cut all ties and move on.
 
Well discussions have always been that we both would like to go back to being friends like we was prior to our relationship for the sake of him. So we can coparent properly and still do events together. If we can achieve this is a different story

I have already prepared a list of mediators, looked into the costs associated etc, I just want to sort this amicably because that then I believe will turn it toxic and then that will reflect through to him.
 
That can work. If you can be friends. It's not a long term solution in my opinion, depending on your personalities, because once one or other of you meets a new partner, the dynamics change. If, for example, your ex met a new partner, she would not be wanting to do events together with you - she would be wanting to do them with her partner and the child and you have separate times with the child. Although I suppose they might invite you to things if it was amicable. But there is another aspect and that is how it affects the child. When parents are separated and have separate homes, children adjust quickly to seeing Mum and Dad separately in different places. But it can be confusing for them to see Mum and Dad together sometimes then because they've learned to respond to you separately. One example of this was when my son was a toddler. My ex wanted us to have a family day out. My son was very confused and kept running between us not knowing which parent he was supposed to be with.
 
Ash said:
That can work. If you can be friends. It's not a long term solution in my opinion, depending on your personalities, because once one or other of you meets a new partner, the dynamics change. If, for example, your ex met a new partner, she would not be wanting to do events together with you - she would be wanting to do them with her partner and the child and you have separate times with the child. Although I suppose they might invite you to things if it was amicable. But there is another aspect and that is how it affects the child. When parents are separated and have separate homes, children adjust quickly to seeing Mum and Dad separately in different places. But it can be confusing for them to see Mum and Dad together sometimes then because they've learned to respond to you separately. One example of this was when my son was a toddler. My ex wanted us to have a family day out. My son was very confused and kept running between us not knowing which parent he was supposed to be with.
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With everything still being very new and raw, I don't really want to be thinking about her with a new partner, although I believe that she is talking to someone already. I have enough faith in her that she wouldn't be introducing our son to him for a long long time yet. At which point, certain aspects will have changed i.e the shift change and possibly the 50/50 request. If this goes ahead and she is not open/recieving about this that will already trigger mediation so there are some aspects to come first.

I think I will always hold out hope for things to work out, but it seems like yourselves don't see that as an option given the circumstances.

I know from personal experience (my parents) that people can split for X amount of months/years and drift back to one another. It is probably unhealthy, but I am trying to improve myself so that I'm better, but there is a small part of me that hopes she will then slightly regret not sitting me down and talking to me first prior to taking drastic action like she has. It could have been fixed, I think she knows that and is why she has been so angry with me

I could also be p***** in the wind and shes gone forever
 
Sorry yes I know it's raw. You have the option to just continue as you are and see what happens. You're seeing your child at week-ends. There's no rush to do anything. When you say there had been issues recently, did you mean she would cancel the odd week-end?
 
She's never hinted at anything to do with stopping me, she's a good mum just hates my guts at the moment because all still raw for her too.

No issues with weekends, more around money. Initial decision, she tells me what she's spent/needs, I send. She then changed to wanting maintenance to which I said it would be fair to 50/50 pickups and drop offs however suited her. Me Fri, her sun, do a weekend each.

This led to extreme arguments on her behalf, although I'm dying inside I'm not angry (I've always been the shouter, she's been hurtful during arguments, but like I said I'm trying to improve and change).

We've decided on half maintenance and I do the taxis for pickup and drop off. I'm assuming, but she had no money by her own admission and given I've been the money problems she didn't want to reach out to mum and dad for a borrow again... but then again, she did want it for a night out so I wasn't paying for it for her. I think this is where she's either met up, or fully met the guy drawing her attention from me. But it's an assumption and she could be totally innocent and just literally need space
 
That sounds reasonably amicable despite it causing an argument. Working things out between you. So you're probably right that court at this stage could make things hostile.

Many Dads in this situation would just get a letter from the CMS telling them how much to pay each month - if the ex goes to the CMS and asks to open a case. And not share any pickups or dropoffs. I think if you can agree an amount then don't worry too much about what she spends it on. That would be the same with CMS - they can spend it on anything without any come back.
 
It has been amicable so far. Although very heated and hostile from her at times.

She's giving me very blunt updates about him, sometimes messages me first letting me know how he's slept and if he's in a good mood or not. We're currently on about 2/3 times a day

Morning, after preschool and then if I'm lucky I get a facetime, if not I'll get an update which upsets me slightly because I know she's letting him fall asleep on her mum without pushing for a facetime call even though its been agreed and promised. I try not to push too much on this as I know if we go to mediation and it's mentioned, I will be told she's well within her rights to radio silence me when he's not with me and vice versa.

The verbal aim from both sides is friends. Like I said, there has been mention of "never say never" etc (by her, on multiple occasions), so part of me thinks she has a lot of anger, a lot of negatives in her ear and has shut down to push me away so that I realise she is done. Whether that is finite or temporary is yet to be seen.

Any involvement of courts or mediation I believe turns things toxic in our circumstances, which I also then believe bleeds into him, potentially alienating him away from me.

I am fully under the impression that she dug herself into a hole on a whim because she saw no hope in us. During our final time in the house, we had an almost perfect relationship again although I did have to walk on eggshells to not anger her, the rest was easy. Time, my ear, affection and no weed. The coldness I believe stems from someone (her mum or friend) telling her she shouldn't have stayed over mothers day (she didn't contact mum or dad to let them know, they rang she didn't answer, her brother had to ring me to get her to check in).

Deep down, I'm under the belief that once she realises she does dislike being at her mums for multiple reasons plus sees my improvements in myself, things will open back up more and friends/more will be on the cards. But I am destroying myself slowly with scenarios and overthinking (example the guy thing comes from increased Facebook activity without replying to me. Online offline during work hours which I believe is replying to messages - I have asked, she has stated strongly no one else involved)

If anything were to progress down the line, I would want couples counselling personally because it's an easy fix, when we're together we are like old times and still get along really well.

I might just be clinging on to nothing but with her Thyroid issues being quite severe, recently diagnosed and currently unmanaged/unmedicated that she needs to work on herself before letting me (or anyone else) back in seriously
 
Oh and she did use the online calculator for maintenance, so the amount is the same, almost works in my favour by a few quid here and there depending on varying taxi prices
 
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