How long roughly does it take to hear from c79 application please?

[henry23]

Thanks about the free half hour with solicitor advice.

I have no evidence about her harming my son. But I do have voice recordings as I recorded so I could hear them later for myself as it was very hard to absorb what he kept telling me at the time.
she was investigated by social services as he reached out to a teacher at school.since then he stopped opening up to me. Cried saying his mom told him it's private business and he's to keep quiet what's happens in the house.

 

[henry23]

I obtained his medical records which the mom did try to stop happening.
Son said to me you will find out about that thing.
Didn't make sense
Then there was a broken type 4 fracture that happened september just after my phone calls were locked off.
I was seeing him still then he was withdrawn and stayed in his room very unusual. The splint me turned in medical records wasn't on it so when I picked him up it had to not be not raise suspicion.

I called the school they wasn't aware hid finger was broken which any mother would mention it.
It clearly had to be kept a secret.
I have mentioned this in my breach I know its nothing to do with it but I need caffcass attention.

 

[henry23]

OK quick update my 11 year old called up today at 7:45am tp have a go at me and question me about going to court.

Im speechless she even knows about court.

And why is her mother sending her on phone asking her to do this. Im shocked.

Do I mention this in court?? I don't know what to do. She's 11 what's she doing to my daughter?

 

[Ash]

It's unfortunate it was by phone rather than text, as then you'd have evidence that ex was including child in "adult matters", sharing court information and inciting child into hostility.

As it's a phone call, it's just hearsay. This is par for the course though and it's important how you react with the child and be calm. When this happened to me I said to my son - it's not "taking someone to court", it's asking some specialist people to help sort things out and you don't need to worry about it - it's for adults to sort out. They feel more relaxed then. My son was very angry with me until I said that. You can imagine the scene - Mum making a big emotional drama and saying how upset she is that Dad is "taking me to court" as if you're hurting their Mum so they are manipulated into feeling protective of Mum. So you calmly need to give them a perspective.

However at 11 it's a bit different as they think they're quite grown up and can be harder to appease than a younger child. Another thing I used to say was "we can discuss it properly when I see you" because I think they can behave differently when at ex's house, than when actually with you, without ex present.

Whatever you do, don't criticise the ex or they will take sides with her. And don't start talking about court stuff - other than to mention it's not quite like "taking someone to court" - it's for specialists to help parents sort things out for their children.

 

[henry23]

Your right it is a shame it can't be used as evidence. I'm really worried what she's demonstrating to him now even more than ever now.
But what I do have is a text message worded from my son having a go at me saying why are you telling csa you see still see when your not. Stop telling csa lies.

So I received 2 weeks ago csa telling me that the mom had informed them I was no longer seeing my son and therefore her money went up. I informed csa the situation and they put it back down as there is a court order in place so went off that. I've told them if after my court date this changes I will inform them then they can put the money back up. Seriously shocked that I'm hear upset of the wedge between myself and son I believe is caused by her and and doing what I can to get court to help and intervene and all that's on her mind is csa money and asking my son to slag me. Speechless.

Clearly all my ex is bothered about is money and not the damage she's causing to my son not seeing me. I will be displaying csa text as evidence.

On the phone my son did say I don't know if I believe you anymore. I don't understand that at all but it's all that's been in my head since. But I guess a lot is being fabricated to him.

 

[henry23]

Hello everyone. A quick update.

First, the ex arrived late. The trial was scheduled for 10 a.m., but she arrived at 12:10

Further waiting to slot is in got seen at 1:30pm

Her breach defence was that her son does not want to see me and that she could not persuade him. I knew that was coming as she thinks that will get her off with the breach. Little does she know blaming it all on that they will want to hear that from my son. Section 7 has been called.

With the entire list of accusations my son has apparently made to her, which she has been telling me in endless emails, they will now investigate whether he is saying and feeling the same way.

She then tried to change the situation by saying I am fine with him, there is no need for section 7, and she will make sure he sees him. They told her straight it doesn't work like that.

I was given a call and was able to choose the day. Firstly I said Mondays for told no swimming. I asked for Fridays got told no rolls skating. My son has never mentioned he does these thing and is far from sporty. Finally, I mentioned Saturday, when she works, and she wanted to refuse because she can not control and sit in on the conversations as she has in the past. They told her no, Saturday it is, because I believe they saw what she was doing.
Also, I can choose what time I want, and it does not have to be agreed upon by the mother. I have never been allowed to do this; everything has always been under her supervision and control.

Could you please explain the process for Section 7?

 

[Ash]

So are you saying this is interim time that's ordered while Section 7 is done and then a further hearing? Shame they didn't just tell her to follow the existing order. Section 7 is an interview with both parents and they speak to the child - often at school.

 

[henry23]

Hi, yeah the phone call is whilst section 7 is being carried out. They did mention me seeing him for 1 hour then build it up over time BUT when we were sent out for them to read over the evidence ex came back in saying she spoke to son and he's expressed it clearly he doesn't want to see me and that he wants card add involved. Everyone's jsw dropped! Judge advised her the impact that having such conversations with him is having on him. This also backed up what I had in my evidence about son contacting me about court stuff in anger.

Despite court telling her how damaging that is she still sent my son to send me a voice note today giving attitude to me. I did not respond. Not sure if I should or shouldn't have. Still sitting here wondering if I should. Since then the voice note has been deleted so I can use it as evidence but I can mention it to caffcass I guess.

My call on Saturday I will limit to 5 minutes then gradually work up. I know there will be attitude and full of questions that the mom with get him grill me with. I will keep it to asking about school and what's he been doing etc.. Father daughter talk.

 

[henry23]

Had my first call with my son Saturday.

The mother works Saturday till 5pm. The court told me I could call my son's phone when I want I called at 3pm and the phone was switched off.
I called at 7 and it was on. Mother still controlling situation which I knew she would as my son has never been allowed to talk to me alone.Ive decided to make a call diary.

Call itself i kept to 5 minutes. It went exactly how I thought it would restricted whathe can say to me. I can always tell when he pause after I question to wait for her approval to answer. I kept it to how was school and you still learning tricks on your bike etc.. It was full of yes and nos and I don't remember.
But it was contact and it's a start and I already know how this is how conversation has to be around his mother as its always been like it.
Only thing we was able to say off his own back was I roller skate now. Which was new in court when the mom told me I can't call Friday because of skating. Clearly told him to tell me that asto be honest I feel he doesn't skate and there was a hidden agenda why I can't call on a Friday most likely because she work Friday late.
When I asked him to tell me about skating son said I can't rememeber.

Had my letter from cafcass to inform me they are doing police checks. I know.mine will be clean last time it was hers came up with safe guarding incident from school hitting my son.

 

[Ash]

Hang in there. It's good you at least got to speak to him. Be careful and handle it carefully as you go on as ex's are known for just not letting phone calls happen sometimes. I'll wait for some of the others who've had this situation to give some tips, because it can helps to have things prepared for a phone call so it's not just questions and answers - how old is your son again?

 

[henry23]

Thanks much appreciated.
I've started making notes for next phone call and trying a different angle of talking about the good times we've shared. But again with this my son has told me he has to make out to his mom he hasn't had a good time with me from when he was around 9 he would go back sharing the time he had with me and she would start saying to him you love your dad more don't you etc. So I'm not sure what to do would this make her stop the calls with jealousy?
I just don't want to do the question thing as I felt like I was a police officer interigating.

He's 11

 

[MagicJ]

Maybe pickup on his interests, have a few fun facts about them, maybe share some anecdotes where you have tried similar activities or had similar experiences.

Inevitably he is on the spot, so you want to impart on him that you see him and are interested in what he does without his fear that after the call Mum is going to fill his ears with negativity

 

[henry23]

Thanks good advice. When I heard his new thing was rollar skating and it was him you mentioned it I thought great something to talk about so started to asking what moves he can do etc... But he was still held back. We used to bike together all the time but again when talking about that it was one word answers.
I guess to its be expected and I will remain strong and not be deflated. How we were to how slow slow alienation has taken it's toll has saddened me.
Can't believe it Saturday tomorrow

 

[Ash]

Could you read a favourite book maybe during the phone calls, rather than chatting as such.

 

[MagicJ]

Thanks good advice. When I heard his new thing was rollar skating and it was him you mentioned it I thought great something to talk about so started to asking what moves he can do etc... But he was still held back. We used to bike together all the time but again when talking about that it was one word answers.
I guess to its be expected and I will remain strong and not be deflated. How we were to how slow slow alienation has taken it's toll has saddened me.
Can't believe it Saturday tomorrow

It's difficult to see that change but the reality is he's still your little boy and you're still his father, what you see is purely an innocent child trying to keep himself together under these challenging circumstances.

You just keep talking to him, keep positive, remember your role at this point is to demonstrate to him for those 10mins that you love him and nothing phases you.

Showing this to him continuously will subconsciously reinforce that message and allow him to use that stability of love from you as an anchor and lighthouse through this phase of his life.

 

[henry23]

Great ideas.

Had my 2nd call.

Court said I can call any time noticed last week sons phone was switched off till the mom finished work.
Called today at 12pm then my son texts saying dad court said your not meant to call till 7/8pm. I text back saying son dad's allowed to call any time. He replied no your not. Left it at that called when I knew mom had finished work and what a coincidence call was allowed with mom listening in.

as my breach angle is heavily about the mom controlling and causing obstruction which I feel has contributed towards my son not wanting to see me can I use my call log notes if this continues till august (my next court date) to demonstrate that the mother is very much still in control. The court made it clear to her I can call anytime just NOT close to bedtime.

 

[Ash]

That text could be useful evidence later that your ex is discussing court matters with him - which she is not supposed to do.

 

[henry23]

Hi Quick question what does Upon both parties filing lengthy statements without the permission of the Court and which have not been served on the other party Upon both parties agreeing mean.
Is this good or bad? Or neither just states we submitted statements.
They mentioned in court we would receive the paperwork each other handed in. Do they post this out or do we ask the court?

 

[Ash]

Is that in an interim order for Child Arrangements? Or some other kind of order?

"Upon both parties filing lengthy statements without the permission of the Court and which have not been served on the other party" sounds like a telling off to both of you. For submitting lengthy statements, without permission and without sharing them with the other side.

"Upon both parties agreeing".......is there something else after that or is it just that both parties agreed they were naughty!

Either way I'm guessing that was an order written by a Mother's solicitor?

 

[henry23]

Its basically a follow up letter from what happened at hearing and ordering a section 7 and telling cafcass what to look into.

Upon both parties agreeing that the last contact between xxxxx and her Father was in November 2023.

That's was the second line.

I thought it maybe a telling off as I submitted evidence after sending my breach i didn't realise you could send evidence with application and nobody mentioned from the courts when I submitted my evidence that I needed to send to the mother.
Will we be sent each other's statements and evidence? As I would like to see what was said about me. I have a rough idea as mother states she hasn't breached because son doesn't want to see me due to behaviour.