How is family court different

[Ash]

This quote from the Magistrates Association website, which makes it clear that it is not concerned with guilt/innocence but with the welfare of the children. IMO this is how the process falls down - if there is no recognition of guilt/innocence, a parent can get away with a) lying b) making false allegations. Surely the welfare of the children depends on a parent not behaving in a way which is inappropriate for a parent - ie lying about the other parent.

The issue seems to be that lying is not actually a criminal offence, or punishable, unless it's in a criminal court. Something needs to change.

"How are family court proceedings different from criminal proceedings?

• The paramount concern is not guilt/innocence but the welfare of the children involved
• The Family Court is usually less formal: there are no wigs or robes, witnesses sit, parties may be encouraged to discuss aspects of the case, parties are often unrepresented
• Most evidence is in the form of written reports and statements
• Hearings are confidential and only those involved can attend: there is no publc gallery
• Members of the press may attend most hearings but reporting restrictions can be imposed to protect the welfare of those involved in the case eg by offering anonymity"

Magistrates Association > About magistrates > Jurisdiction > Family court

www.magistrates-association.org.uk

 

[Ash]

By this argument, it's clear how some flakey Cafcass officers and magistrates can take the view that - childrens welfare is fine with Mum - it's just Mum doesn't like Dad. We can't make her like him so try mediation - which probably won't work. But childrens welfare also includes a relationship with both parents. If Mum won't agree we can order her to. But if she still won't do it, what next? Maybe easier to leave kids with Mum.

To my mind - that is the thinking of flakey court professionals. And the laziness sometimes encountered. To be fair there are good Cafcass officers who will have no truck with a Mother witholding time with the child. And there are definitely good Judges as well. But in my view, witholding a child from a parent, when there are no welfare issues, is harmful to the child's psychological wellbeing and so a District Judge should be involved - a higher level of professional.

When making an application you can request that the case is heard by a District Judge, due to the stress for the child in this situation. You may or may not get one.

 

[StayStrong]

When making an application you can request that the case is heard by a District Judge, due to the stress for the child in this situation. You may or may not get one.

In my nine court occasions for child matters it has been an experience of a merry go round.....you get who or what is available, DJ or mag bench. The latter is hopeless, tthey have no legal background whatsoever leading to all to frequent adjournment and deferring to a DJ.....but not necessarily one who has encountered the case before. "Delay is the enemy of the children", oft quoted but ordinarily ignored in the mag bench scenario.

Not only is this deeply damaging to the child/children involved, it is hugely costly when represented. Solicitor fees coupled to at least £1k of barrister, all for nothing.

I am now in CAO #2. The first came to a final Court Order at the 1st FHDRA, heard by a DJ. The last 8 court occasions have, for the first 5, all been a combination of mag benches and one other DJ. That one other DJ, seen once and never seen since, bowed unreservedly to my ex's demands. It was a sham of an occasion, and while at that time I self repped I am confident that no amount of ££££'s on a barrister would have led to any other outcome. The result is that this second (malicious) CAO is now almost up to two years old. "Delay is the enemy of the children".

The bright side? Well, there is one, in that court appearances 6, 7 & 8 have been heard by the same DJ who issued the original Final (lol) Court Order. Consistency and continuity have been established, the DJ has come to know the parties involved, and crucially, the children too. My son met with the DJ earlier this month.

But requesting a case be heard by a DJ can be as fruitful as picking seven numbers to win a six number based lottery!

I'd like to think after all this time that th end is in sight, however I learned a while ago that is wishful thinking, and in the meantime, "delay is the enemy of the children".

Take care all, SS.

 

[Ash]

I have never had magistrates. Maybe lucky. My first application was urgent for a holiday (my ex stopped contact permanently a couple of weeks before this holiday). I had a tip to apply for CAO and Specific Issues for holiday at the same time and asked for the hearing to be for both. Which was pushing it.

I have since found out that because I applied to a small local court, there is actually only one part time family Judge there - a DJ. So had him first time. That was positive. He looked at the timeline and dismissed my ex's allegations immediately (they were against my partner). Solicitors thrashed out agreement by threatening each other and CAO was approved on the day to be "as before".

Being green and knowing nothing about family court and court orders at that time, I trusted it would be what was said on the day! Which it wasn't. Still not sure what happened but I know my ex phoned and badgered Cafcass a lot after the hearing and they wrote the order.

So no delay in that case - but a rubbish unworkable order (arrangements were basically just recitals).

My ex realised the order wasn't enforceable after a few months so tried to prevent time again in a big way. Hence my second application for variation a year later for a "final" order. Because it wasn't enforceable, I couldn't apply to enforce so had to apply to vary - which I actually think can be the better option (although enforcement is supposed to be a quicker hearing).

Did plenty of research this time and my son was then being alienated so it was important it was a really good order and this highlighted carefully.

Asked for judicial continuity and the same Judge but didn't get it - I did get a District Judge but not the same one. Court papers said "this case will be heard by a District Judge as it has been at District Judge level before".

So to me that is the key - ask for a District Judge at the start and that's your reason for continuing to get one.

I think it's a travesty that childrens lives hang in the balance for months because magistrates are not district Judges and sit on things. All due respect to magistrates - I am sure some of them are good. But so many cases I've heard where they just are a bit too passive - and yes - adjournments. They don't have the confidence to dismiss allegations, like a Judge does.

 

[Roblox]

I think I've said this before but this is the issue for me. No accounting for behaviours. For example withholding access between court application and the court date itself. It's just something an NRP has to go through.