Finding of fact hearing advice?

[Jase896]

Good evening everyone!

I have a finding of fact hearing coming up and I am after some advice please?

How do you balance getting all the relevant allegations in to set out you’re stall whilst not coming across as a narcissist out for revenge? I am only interested in what is best for our daughter and to be able to co-parent, but my Ex partner has clearly shown she doesn’t care about the ramifications after all this is said and done and the co-parenting afterwards. She has spouted the most horrible allegations in order to muddy my name, but in the process has already been caught lying to the courts in the first hearing.

Thank you all

 

[Ash]

I think it comes down to formal wording really. What allegations are you making?

 

[Jase896]

I think it comes down to formal wording really. What allegations are you making?

That she blackmailed me into giving her more money or I can’t see our daughter, she made me choose between my family and her and my daughter, she said on numerous occasions she’ll never ever stop me seeing our daughter but then has proceeded to stop all contact, she has made allegations I have sexually abused our daughter which I need to disprove, she has accused me and and my family of being perverts, peadophiles, incestuous and have sexually abused our daughter as a family. She told me our daughter wasn’t mine, numerous lies in all honesty

 

[nothernsoul]

Has she made all of these very serious allegations formally or just in conversations, albeit probably very heated ones, with you.

My first thoughts are that the burden of proof would lie with her.

I'd be getting some serious legal advice

 

[Ash]

Despite the things your ex is saying and accusing, it sounds like it would be better not to accuse too much back. I'm not sure the blackmail one would be taken that seriously. If she is the one making the allegations, it might be better just to not make any back and show you're the one who just wants to co parent amicably (and I know that sounds incongruous when she's accused you of abusing your daughter but it kind of shows you as innocent as well and dismissive of the ridiculous allegations).

So what do you have to do before this fact find? Set out responses to her allegations and list your own allegations?

I think using a barrister for the fact find hearing would really help you get past this fact find, as the danger with fact finds is - even if all her allegations are dismissed, Cafcass can then say there is conflict between parents because you also made some against the ex. Then they tend to give the child tothe Mother anyway and recommend minimal (or no time) to Dad. It's a serious business and presumably the main focus is on getting an order for time with your child.

Once an ex has thrown everything at you, and failed, and you get your order, you can move on with your life a bit with your child.

A fact find hearing is a time when it really really helps to have representation as they can go badly wrong if you try to do it yourself - there's a lot involved. It is possible but you need to keep emotion out of it. A Barrister might be able to persuade a judge to dismiss all your ex's allegations (and yes she has to prove them and have evidence but ultimately it's a Judge's opinion on who they believe and some people act well so having a Barrister guide and persuade the Judge is a big help).

That she blackmailed me into giving her more money or I can’t see our daughter, she made me choose between my family and her and my daughter, she said on numerous occasions she’ll never ever stop me seeing our daughter but then has proceeded to stop all contact,

These are more likely to be seen as arguments about breaking up. The others are her allegations against you. It's instinct to want to retaliate with hurling allegations back but that isn't always the best option.

If it's too late to withdraw any allegations on your part I would just list the two along the lines of

1) Mrs Ex informed me I could only see my daughter if I gave her a large sum of money. I am already paying child support at the assessed rate (if that is the case). But that might just be seen as a divorce financial argument even if it's bad she is using the child as leverage - which is common.

2) Mrs Ex wanted me to give up seeing my family if I was to be with her and my daughter. I can't reject my family but do wish to continue to see my daughter.

Do you have evidence to prove either of those allegations? If not, there is no point making them.

For responses to allegations I believe what people usually do (having not had a fact find myself) is list them as per her schedule eg

1) Allegation that I have sexually abused my daughter: This is categorically untrue and fabricated and has caused me severe stress. Mrs Ex was threatening to withold my daughter if I didn't pay her x amount of money (see exhibit (a) attached).

Exhibit (a) would be your evidence that she threatened to withold your daughter unless you do xyz

2) Allegation that I am not my daughter's Father: This is untrue, however to prove this, a DNA test would be needed. (Have you actually had a DNA test?)

How long is the hearing? A day? Two days? Can you afford to use a direct access barrister for the hearing?

 

[Jase896]

Has she made all of these very serious allegations formally or just in conversations, albeit probably very heated ones, with you.

My first thoughts are that the burden of proof would lie with her.

I'd be getting some serious legal advice

Yeah, this was on the First Directions hearing. She didn't even have the nerve to go into the court room and sent her mum in instead. I have a meeting tomorrow with my solicitor to discuss the next steps.

 

[Jase896]

Despite the things your ex is saying and accusing, it sounds like it would be better not to accuse too much back. I'm not sure the blackmail one would be taken that seriously. If she is the one making the allegations, it might be better just to not make any back and show you're the one who just wants to co parent amicably (and I know that sounds incongruous when she's accused you of abusing your daughter but it kind of shows you as innocent as well and dismissive of the ridiculous allegations).

So what do you have to do before this fact find? Set out responses to her allegations and list your own allegations?

I think using a barrister for the fact find hearing would really help you get past this fact find, as the danger with fact finds is - even if all her allegations are dismissed, Cafcass can then say there is conflict between parents because you also made some against the ex. Then they tend to give the child tothe Mother anyway and recommend minimal (or no time) to Dad. It's a serious business and presumably the main focus is on getting an order for time with your child.

Once an ex has thrown everything at you, and failed, and you get your order, you can move on with your life a bit with your child.

A fact find hearing is a time when it really really helps to have representation as they can go badly wrong if you try to do it yourself - there's a lot involved. It is possible but you need to keep emotion out of it. A Barrister might be able to persuade a judge to dismiss all your ex's allegations (and yes she has to prove them and have evidence but ultimately it's a Judge's opinion on who they believe and some people act well so having a Barrister guide and persuade the Judge is a big help).



These are more likely to be seen as arguments about breaking up. The others are her allegations against you. It's instinct to want to retaliate with hurling allegations back but that isn't always the best option.

If it's too late to withdraw any allegations on your part I would just list the two along the lines of

1) Mrs Ex informed me I could only see my daughter if I gave her a large sum of money. I am already paying child support at the assessed rate (if that is the case). But that might just be seen as a divorce financial argument even if it's bad she is using the child as leverage - which is common.

2) Mrs Ex wanted me to give up seeing my family if I was to be with her and my daughter. I can't reject my family but do wish to continue to see my daughter.

Do you have evidence to prove either of those allegations? If not, there is no point making them.

For responses to allegations I believe what people usually do (having not had a fact find myself) is list them as per her schedule eg

1) Allegation that I have sexually abused my daughter: This is categorically untrue and fabricated and has caused me severe stress. Mrs Ex was threatening to withold my daughter if I didn't pay her x amount of money (see exhibit (a) attached).

Exhibit (a) would be your evidence that she threatened to withold your daughter unless you do xyz

2) Allegation that I am not my daughter's Father: This is untrue, however to prove this, a DNA test would be needed. (Have you actually had a DNA test?)

How long is the hearing? A day? Two days? Can you afford to use a direct access barrister for the hearing?

This is very helpful thank you!

We have to schedule our allegations towards each other within 2 weeks and then have a further 2 weeks to respond to said allegations. I am fully on the basis that I only want to be in my daughters life, I have no intention of turning this into a mud slinging match between 2 people! She has made her allegations and I firmly believe that she cannot make anymore serious allegations as she has already accused me of abusing our daughter which in my eyes is the worse thing anyone can do or say.

She has been ordered to make our daughter available for a DNA test so that will be happening in the next week or so, and once that is done and dusted I will finally be able to get my name listed on the birth certificate.

 

[mainstay92]

Absolutely shocking behaviour. But unfortunately its not new. Has she gone to the police about these allegations?

 

[Jase896]

Absolutely shocking behaviour. But unfortunately its not new. Has she gone to the police about these allegations?

It is ridiculous, the things that these people can get away with is unacceptable. No, the allegations she has made in relation to me abusing my daughter have not been reported to the police.

 

[mainstay92]

It is ridiculous, the things that these people can get away with is unacceptable. No, the allegations she has made in relation to me abusing my daughter have not been reported to the police.

I would think the Judge would find that odd that if she really believed that happened she would have reported it to the Police with or without evidence..

 

[Jase896]

I would think the Judge would find that odd that if she really believed that happened she would have reported it to the Police with or without evidence..

Oh I know, that is what my solicitor said! He said that her story will get ripped apart in court and would cast doubt on the rest of the allegations she would make. In the initial CAFCASS report she stated she was concerned I may of abused her and then at the first direction hearing she changed her story to state that I had abused her. So already there is conflicting reports and it sounds like she is making it up as she goes along