C100 Submitted and now waiting

[Pj66]

Hi folks,

My c100 was submitted in February and made contact with the civil justice center today. They said that the hearing date is likely to be listed in June and that notice will typically come through 2 weeks before with the hearing date. I asked if that means that cafcass would be in touch before I get notice and they said that yes this might be likely as it takes at least up to 21 days to do the report and checks.

Does this sound right? what's everyone's thoughts on this as this seems a really long time. Also means ex will get a surprise cafcass call before any notice. As things stand she probably thinks I haven't bothered to apply but keep in mind, she was emailed that I signed off.

The application was held up for a while in limbo for me to confirm notice of acting from my solicitor. But it also indicates that ex hasnt applied and had no intention of applying as I may have heard something if she had.

 

[mva]

June sounds about right time wise since application. The caffcass call is usually arranged through an email via egress. Sometimes this will end up in your junk mail. Has your solicitor told your ex that an application is in, otherwise she might miss the caffcass email.

P.S. I’m sure you have followed the threads about saying nothing negative to caffcass about your ex and remaining child focused.

 

[Kev19]

As mva said, say nothing negative about your ex. I accidentally defended myself during the cafcass call and they reported back saying there is conflict between the parents. Keep everything child focused

 

[Pj66]

June sounds about right time wise since application. The caffcass call is usually arranged through an email via egress. Sometimes this will end up in your junk mail. Has your solicitor told your ex that an application is in, otherwise she might miss the caffcass email.

P.S. I’m sure you have followed the threads about saying nothing negative to caffcass about your ex and remaining child focused.

No I ended up having to respond I am LIP due to the delay as I wanted it processed asap, I may use a barrister and file a notice of acting once hearing is due, but thinking about it now as I type this, that isn't a very long time to file a notice of acting within 2 weeks before a hearing?

 

[Ash]

If you mean letting the court know you're using a barrister, that can be as late as the day before the hearing. There is no rush to do that and it can be advantageous to leave it as late as possible.

 

[Pj66]

If you mean letting the court know you're using a barrister, that can be as late as the day before the hearing. There is no rush to do that and it can be advantageous to leave it as late as possible.

Could you highlight why that may be advantageous?

I'm also on the fence of applying LIP as to whether il be seen as an easy target or they may not lawyer up as hard. Don't know yet, I'm suspecting something to happen after notice at the least.

 

[Ash]

Yes if they think you're LIP they'll get overconfident. If they know you have a barrister too soon, they'll get lawyered up beyond solicitor level themselves.

Mostly I emailed the court the day before a hearing to say a Barrister was acting for me, and the other side didn't find out till they got there. Mainly that was because they were either short notice hearings, or finding a Barrister last minute. On the one occasion it was planned in advance, the Barrister emailed the court to say he was representing me but he only did that about 10 days before the hearing. I don't think he copied in the other side.

My barrister always trumped ex's solicitor, and when she did get a barrister (for a final hearing) hers was rubbish lol.

 

[Pj66]

In terms of the bundle, as I have applied as LIP, my understanding is that the respondent if represented by a solicitor (which I believe they will be) will be in charge of the bundle.

So even though I will be using the barrister, can someone tell me what common tactics will be used in terms of the bundle and how to counter?

Is a bundle required by a first hearing and what will likely be included in this?

Once she receives notice can their solicitor instantly get underway the preparation of the bundle and, without informing me that preparation is taking place?

Once their solicitor starts preparing the bundle, if I decide to assign a solicitor to my case, as the applicant, will the preparation of the bundle then transfer to my solicitor or are the bundles set in stone to be prepared by them going forward?

What will the barristers role be in terms of the bundle before hand and on day of hearing?

Thanks

 

[Ash]

You're thinking way too far ahead and you need to just take one step at a time.

No there's no bundle for the first hearing.

If a bundle needs preparing for a further hearing (and probably not till a final hearing) and your ex has a solicitor, you could hire one for a one of job to do the bundle nearer the time and then your one off job solicitor can tell the other solicitor - I'm doing the bundle. So no it's not set in stone.

Some barristers will do bundles but it;s not usual.

It might not even get to a final hearing - lawyers might thrash out an agreement at the first hearing.

 

[Nanaforsonsjustice]

You're thinking way too far ahead and you need to just take one step at a time.

No there's no bundle for the first hearing.

If a bundle needs preparing for a further hearing (and probably not till a final hearing) and your ex has a solicitor, you could hire one for a one of job to do the bundle nearer the time and then your one off job solicitor can tell the other solicitor - I'm doing the bundle. So no it's not set in stone.

Some barristers will do bundles but it;s not usual.

It might not even get to a final hearing - lawyers might thrash out an agreement at the first hearing.

My sons barrister wants to do a bundle for first hearing at a cost of £500 + vat.

 

[Ash]

What would be in the bundle? The court will have a copy of the application and Cafcass report. The only other thing would be position statements for that day, which would be exchanged on the day. Can't think of anything else for a first hearing unless GP or alcohol tests have been ordered but that's usually for after a first hearing.

 

[Nanaforsonsjustice]

The exs solicitors are asking for a bundle. They already have a copy of c100, court order setting the first hearing date, her c7 and C1a and no one but the court has the cafcass report. He says he needs to do a statement of facts and chronology of events. He’s also charging £400 for a position statement.

 

[Pj66]

I don't think I am thinking to far ahead when it comes to considering representation.

I would have thought no matter how small the bundle would be even if it's the carcass report, 2 statements , c1a and application, that would still be procedurally correct to begin in forming a bundle...

 

[Ash]

Sorry didn't mean thinking too far ahead to get a barrister. I don't think you'll need a bundle for a first hearing. Has one been ordered? Unless it's a huge case, it's usually only a bundle for final hearing. Even if an ex's solicitor did a bundle at this stage, there isn't much they could miss out as it's such early days.

And in line with that, if an ex's solicitor ever did do a bundle and leave some of your documents out or add things that haven't been agreed or shared previously, you just write to the court, formally object to certain documents included, and send the court the ones that were missed out. The court will just add them to the bundle or use both "bundles".

 

[Ash]

My sons barrister wants to do a bundle for first hearing at a cost of £500 + vat.

Do you know why?

 

[Pj66]

Sorry didn't mean thinking too far ahead to get a barrister. I don't think you'll need a bundle for a first hearing. Has one been ordered? Unless it's a huge case, it's usually only a bundle for final hearing. Even if an ex's solicitor did a bundle at this stage, there isn't much they could miss out as it's such early days.

And in line with that, if an ex's solicitor ever did do a bundle and leave some of your documents out or add things that haven't been agreed or shared previously, you just write to the court, formally object to certain documents included, and send the court the ones that were missed out. The court will just add them to the bundle or use both "bundles".

Yes so after discussion with family on the best way forward, didn't really like the idea of having to deal with the issues that may come if not in charge of the bundle.

I can see what your saying about there not really being anything much to go in a bundle at this stage,(which was also my initial view that one may not be needed) it was just not clear as to whether the applicant still bears responsibility on any bundle of required even with a change in notice of acting at a later date .

Also on another point, I would have liked to get more information from barristers however I was told by one place I was looking that they can't give me any information until the hearing date is confirm which as we know could be 2 weeks before the hearing in 8weeks ish time which is rather disappointing.

 

[Ash]

Well you can't book one until you have a hearing date, that's true. So are you thinking of using both a solicitor and a barrister? I personally have never heard of anyone needing a bundle for a first hearing. After the first hearing, if an order says respondent's solicitor will do the bundle, and nearer the time you have a solicitor, then it will AUTOMATICALLY be your and your solicitor's prerogative to do the bundle because that's the way the system works. The applicant ALWAYS does the bundle - unless the respondent has a solicitor. If both have solicitors - AT ANY TIME - then the applicant's solicitor does the bundle.

So personally I wouldn't pay for a solicitor for the first hearing - just a barrister. If you have both, then the solicitor will write up the order (and maybe not very well or accurately IME). If you just use a barrrister, the barrister will write up the order - and it will be spot on. And no running up bills arguing between solicitors as to whether the order wording is accurate (which happens and just lines solicitors pockets and causes a lot of stress). Nobody argues with a barrister order.

So personally I think a direct access barrister is the best thing to have at a first hearing if you're going to have representation. They will work personally with you and not chit chat with the solicitor (if there were both).

I think now is the time to be thinking about orders, rather than bundles. With a barrister you're much more likely to get a better interim order (written up properly without argument).

Me - I would never use a solicitor for a first hearing again - I'd have been better off on my own.

 

[Ash]

So I think you are creating issues over bundles, too early in the process and not focusing on the priority which is getting a good order at the first hearing. If not a final consent order, then a good interim order.

However some people do use a solicitor and barrister team and that's up to you, but the solicitor needs to be very very good and ideally a solicitor barrister team who work together regularly. If you do use a solicitor you won't have any involvement with the barrister until the morning of the hearing and even then not much - the solicitor will be the middle man between you (which can be frustrating if things aren't conveyed as you'd like).

 

[KF31]

When my partner applied for enforcement, both he and his ex were LIP. The court ordered that my partner do an electronic bundle, but this was only ordered later within the hearings. Can’t be 100% which hearing it was for without looking back at the paperwork, but off top of my head I’m sure it was requested for the third hearing.