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Advice on contact
- Thread starter blindex
- Start date
Hi Blindex,
I have not followed your case. You say you are a final hearing away from conclusion. What have you proposed for the family court's consideration? Have CAFASS been involved? If so, what did they say?
If this is a final hearing, I would go out all guns blazing with the strongest position statement re-emphasising that your child has always had a great relationship with you, that you have always had an active role in the parenting of your child and that your child flourished with your support. I would not criticise mother, but I would say that separation has increased tension during this period, but you have always sought to defuse the tension and that over this period, you have prepared yourself to co-parent efficiently and professionally by following Social Services/CAFCASS guidelines and principles on co-parenting (research what these are, or any equivalents from UK govt charity groups). I would then conclude with the following for example:
A shared care CAO would allow our child to have meaningful relationships with their mother and me, and unconditional love and support from both of us. Ultimately I would want this as this would promote the best welfare outcomes for our child.
Sorry if I rambled.
I have not followed your case. You say you are a final hearing away from conclusion. What have you proposed for the family court's consideration? Have CAFASS been involved? If so, what did they say?
If this is a final hearing, I would go out all guns blazing with the strongest position statement re-emphasising that your child has always had a great relationship with you, that you have always had an active role in the parenting of your child and that your child flourished with your support. I would not criticise mother, but I would say that separation has increased tension during this period, but you have always sought to defuse the tension and that over this period, you have prepared yourself to co-parent efficiently and professionally by following Social Services/CAFCASS guidelines and principles on co-parenting (research what these are, or any equivalents from UK govt charity groups). I would then conclude with the following for example:
A shared care CAO would allow our child to have meaningful relationships with their mother and me, and unconditional love and support from both of us. Ultimately I would want this as this would promote the best welfare outcomes for our child.
Sorry if I rambled.
It's obviously your ex. If your ex was saying what fun it would be she would want to go. I personally don't think you should wait till October, and should email the court explaining the situation and asking for a directions hearing.
I don't think you should have got a child psychologist personally. But let us know how that goes. Assume your ex agreed? Who is the psychologist dealing with? Both parents? Or just you? Courts can frown on these things and thing that children should not be seen by a psychologist unless the court orders it.
I don't think you should have got a child psychologist personally. But let us know how that goes. Assume your ex agreed? Who is the psychologist dealing with? Both parents? Or just you? Courts can frown on these things and thing that children should not be seen by a psychologist unless the court orders it.
Hi Ash,
Thanks for your reply. Yes we are past the s7 report, past Cafcass, past all that bs to be honest.
We have a final welfare hearing scheduled for October where the CAO will be finalised. 90% of the CAO was agreed in the previous hearing that dealt with section 7. Cafcass will not be attending the final hearing and are no longer involved in the case.
I first asked the mother to refer our daughter to a psychotherapist but she didn't do anything. I then did an extensive search and found a clinician with 30 years of experience, including court experience, and dealing with issues of alienation.
This clinician will speak with us individually, and then together with our daughter but at this stage this is very much an assessment. The mother agreed with the approach.
I also spoke with my daughters school safeguarding leads and with the LA early help service who had been involved with the family.
The only thing I have on my favour is that I had about 38 contact sessions (6 supervised) that went without issues. It is only when my son started overnights, that my daughter behaviours changed.
I'm desperate because the family courts have no teeth to be honest. They allowed the mother to put statement of hate after statement of hate .... and let her go unchallenged. They indulged the mother in her sick fantasies and this is the result.
I can't afford asking for a directions hearing, and the issue for me is what am I going to ask?
I think the judge will be pretty pissed off that the case went backwards....
Thanks for your reply. Yes we are past the s7 report, past Cafcass, past all that bs to be honest.
We have a final welfare hearing scheduled for October where the CAO will be finalised. 90% of the CAO was agreed in the previous hearing that dealt with section 7. Cafcass will not be attending the final hearing and are no longer involved in the case.
I first asked the mother to refer our daughter to a psychotherapist but she didn't do anything. I then did an extensive search and found a clinician with 30 years of experience, including court experience, and dealing with issues of alienation.
This clinician will speak with us individually, and then together with our daughter but at this stage this is very much an assessment. The mother agreed with the approach.
I also spoke with my daughters school safeguarding leads and with the LA early help service who had been involved with the family.
The only thing I have on my favour is that I had about 38 contact sessions (6 supervised) that went without issues. It is only when my son started overnights, that my daughter behaviours changed.
I'm desperate because the family courts have no teeth to be honest. They allowed the mother to put statement of hate after statement of hate .... and let her go unchallenged. They indulged the mother in her sick fantasies and this is the result.
I can't afford asking for a directions hearing, and the issue for me is what am I going to ask?
I think the judge will be pretty pissed off that the case went backwards....
My concern is just that the issue may be with the ex, not with the child. Four year olds do what they're told. If Mum says - you go with Dad and brother after nursery tonight to your other home - she would go - she's been given permission to be positive about it. If Mum says - when Dad comes, tell him you're not coming - she would do that too. Then it looks like she's refusing of her own accord. So in that situation there is nothing wrong with the child, it is the Mother manipulating the child negatively. And pretending she isn't. She can say - oh it's not me because her brother goes happily. Well that may be because she only says it to the girl, the four year old, to try and cast suspicion on you.
The way it would be highlighted to the court is - the Mother is encouraging the child to not go with the Father rather than encouraging the child to enjoy staying with the Father and this contradicts earlier experiences. Once it gets into - well what can we do, we can't force her to go etc, then the Mother's manipulation is working. I think it needs nipping in the bud.
The onus is very much on the Mother to ENSURE that your daughter spends time with you - and she has the power to make that happen. Your daughter is only four and easily influenced by the Mother, either way.
I wonder what would happen if you turned up to pick up your daughter saying Mummy says I'm to take you out for an ice cream before we go home. (Not suggesting you do that as it would be a lie). If she then thought Mummy had said you were to do that ........and she likes ice cream and it's ok because Mummy told you that. Except she'd still have in her head "tell Daddy you're not coming". So then she might be confused.
Anyway just concerned that this could be going up a blind alley - everyone trying to get to the bottom of the child's behaviour when the person who can affect that is the Mother - who is basically witholding overnight stays because she wants to.
With a directions hearing you would just put it to the judge that the court order is not being followed regarding overnights because the Mother is encouraging the child to refuse to come, rather than explaining to the child that it's fine to go with Daddy and this is a change of behaviour in your daughter who has always been happy with you.
The result might be - either a directions hearing for the Judge to be very firm with ex and tell her she must make sure the daughter goes for overnights. Or - the Judge might not call a directions hearing, but just issue an order saying the Mother must comply with the current order and ensure both children have overnight stays.
It's quite a long way off till October and this situation could become entrenched. Also if it's the final hearing in October, I can't see them making an order for your daughter to spend 50/50 or regular overnights if she hasn't been coming for months. You could end up with another progressive order and the hearing adjourned. ie another directions hearing in October.
I think it is what I would do - email the court - say the order for overnight stays is not being followed by the Mother, who is encouraging the child not to come and making excuses and ask the court for directions.
And see what happens. If it did lead to another directions hearing then maybe you could self rep.
Your daughter is mirroring what your ex wants. She knows Mum will approve of her if she refuses to go. So it's partly "instruction" - like do this or say this, and it's partly to try and be in Mummy's good books (and she might even be being rewarded for doing it).
The way it would be highlighted to the court is - the Mother is encouraging the child to not go with the Father rather than encouraging the child to enjoy staying with the Father and this contradicts earlier experiences. Once it gets into - well what can we do, we can't force her to go etc, then the Mother's manipulation is working. I think it needs nipping in the bud.
The onus is very much on the Mother to ENSURE that your daughter spends time with you - and she has the power to make that happen. Your daughter is only four and easily influenced by the Mother, either way.
I wonder what would happen if you turned up to pick up your daughter saying Mummy says I'm to take you out for an ice cream before we go home. (Not suggesting you do that as it would be a lie). If she then thought Mummy had said you were to do that ........and she likes ice cream and it's ok because Mummy told you that. Except she'd still have in her head "tell Daddy you're not coming". So then she might be confused.
Anyway just concerned that this could be going up a blind alley - everyone trying to get to the bottom of the child's behaviour when the person who can affect that is the Mother - who is basically witholding overnight stays because she wants to.
With a directions hearing you would just put it to the judge that the court order is not being followed regarding overnights because the Mother is encouraging the child to refuse to come, rather than explaining to the child that it's fine to go with Daddy and this is a change of behaviour in your daughter who has always been happy with you.
The result might be - either a directions hearing for the Judge to be very firm with ex and tell her she must make sure the daughter goes for overnights. Or - the Judge might not call a directions hearing, but just issue an order saying the Mother must comply with the current order and ensure both children have overnight stays.
It's quite a long way off till October and this situation could become entrenched. Also if it's the final hearing in October, I can't see them making an order for your daughter to spend 50/50 or regular overnights if she hasn't been coming for months. You could end up with another progressive order and the hearing adjourned. ie another directions hearing in October.
I think it is what I would do - email the court - say the order for overnight stays is not being followed by the Mother, who is encouraging the child not to come and making excuses and ask the court for directions.
And see what happens. If it did lead to another directions hearing then maybe you could self rep.
Your daughter is mirroring what your ex wants. She knows Mum will approve of her if she refuses to go. So it's partly "instruction" - like do this or say this, and it's partly to try and be in Mummy's good books (and she might even be being rewarded for doing it).
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