Access to daughter stopped/allegations made

[scooter]

My ex took my daughter to the Doctors, they noticed some bruising on her, some they classed as the usual same old bruising, and another bruise that they said didn't look right, and questioned my daughter as to whether she had been tickled! My daughter had said that I tickled her that day as well as the previous Friday. My daughter is always ALWAYS covered in bruises. She is a clumsy 6yr old, running into things, being dragged about by her mates etc. The doctor called Social Services and that has resulted in me getting a safeguarding issue raised against me. I have only received one call from Social Services. I am so angry at what my daughter is going through

 

[Ash]

I just read back. Your ex involved social services over allegations of tickling your daughter causing bruises. But social services has closed the case. What is likely though is that your ex told them she had safeguarding concerns and social services did their thing of advising she withold contact if she had safeguarding concerns. It's a lazy thing that goes on a lot and means they don't have to investigate. But they have closed the case, therefore they are not investigating you.

So all they said when they contacted you is to apply to court? That will be to get the time back and let the court sort it out - meaning they don't really want to be involved. I would try not to rock the boat right now with social services.

If your ex has made an allegation, Cafcass will contact social services, see if there were any referrals and probably see the case was closed - then that is dismissed. But they may decide to do a Section 7 report.

It could be an idea to try and get some counselling as support while this is going on. I wouldn't start saying your ex is mentally abusing your daughter. Let the court decide that. Keep your side of things child focused. I take it there is no contact with your ex any more?

Your ex may have had notice you applied to court (even though the application was sent back due to no MIAM) and that made her contact social services with an allegation. All this will come out in the wash.

Going forwards, it would be better to show "concern" about the ex situation and the child suddenly being kept away.

 

[Ash]

Just seen your last post - and I edited mine above a bit as I read back. Ok so the GP contacted social services. But social services closed the case and said apply to court. That will be because they will have advised your ex to withold your child for safeguarding (standard practice) and that's their job done basically - they are overloaded. And leave it to you to apply to court and let the court sort it out. I think it's best not to contact social services again. Unless it's to ask for a closure report - and then they'll probably say they don't have one.

It's unfortunate the first application was rejected due to no MIAM - the C100 does say clearly - no MIAM and the application will be rejected. I'm not sure why your solicitor sent one off without advising you of that. Might be better not to use them again.

 

[scooter]

Hi Ash,

Social Services literally asked me twice if I could remember tickling my daughter. I answered them, and then told them of my Ex's mental health issues and that she tried to take her own life last year, as well as the abuse I received whilst we were together. They didn't know any of this! The SS worker said it was closed their end, but to seek legal advice and to go through the courts for access. They repeated again to seek legal advice as the ex could get the police involved.

"I think it's best not to contact social services again. Unless it's to ask for a closure report - and then they'll probably say they don't have one."

I guess this would make sense to the response that I got from them today?

 

[Ash]

Sorry I'm getting muddled now as to what they said when. I know they said the above to you before. What did they say today?

 

[scooter]

I have rang Social Services this morning for an update on what is happening, but initially was told that they couldn't find anything on file, put me on hold, and then came back and the lady said there was files that she couldn't access and she would need to request them? My question is, is that normal?

 

[Ash]

If they said get legal advice as ex may involve the police they probably meant with a criminal solicitor. In which case I would wait. If you do get contacted by the police, and they want to interview you, then you get a criminal solicitor (not a family solicitor) and you will be entitled to a free criminal solicitor to attend a police interview with you. Someone else on here had this recently and he was advised to say no comment to everything rather than talk to them at all - because then they can't charge you with anything and refer on to the CPS - as there is no evidence. Sadly though, if the police do get involved, they will probably interview your daughter as well but I am pretty sure they will close the case over "tickling". A police interview is a formal thing and they ask a lot of questions - maybe over 100. Which is why you need a solicitor to advise you before answering anything. After the formal interview you can say other things to them about your concerns that this happened very suddenly after years of a happy relationship with your daughter, after your ex etc etc.

But don't worry about that yet because it hasn't happened yet. What I usually say is - just take things one step at a time.

Ok read your message above. Social services may be fobbing you off - who knows - but they are basically not discussing it with you. I think it would be best not to contact them again. When Cafcass do their safeguarding calls as part of your C100 application they will get details from social services and you'll find out via the Cafcass letter.

For example I once contact social services over concerns to my son regarding bruising - serious concerns - I know she was hitting him but couldn't prove it. And my son had been kept off school. They didn't take me seriously at first but eventually opened a case and told me to get the police to go round to do a safeguarding check. My ex of course accused me of using the police to harrass her. And told them he fell of his bike. And they believed her - because kids do fall of their bikes, play football and all sorts. So social services closed the case because there was no immediate risk of harm.

When I later applied to court again, Cafcass check to see if there have been any social services involvement and this report came up and all the Cafcass report said was - a referral to social services on x date - case closed the same day. It's then seen as nothing.

Bruising can also be caused by certain medical conditions. I think the important thing now is your Cafcass call when it comes - which may not be for at least 2 or 3 weeks. So all you can do right now is wait.

 

[Peanut 21]

Social services can be guarded, it is not unusual for them to have a think before deciding on what information they should share. However unreasonable they are, however ridiculous things seem, the aim is to treat them as an ally. If they take the impression that you are oppositional, they are likely to clam up.

Remember to always take the name of the person you speak to, note the time and what they say. I have experience of being told lies and given assurances in the same call, it felt like there was no reason to take particular note. Significance of this only became apparent months later. I suggest you learn from my mistake. Beware, they might call you back at the least convenient moment, you have to get straight into the right zone to speak with them.

Mum may well do a Subject Acccess Request, so you want these people to be writing about you as the nice guy.

And the classic "I'll call back later today" and you hear nothing.

 

[scooter]

I’ve still not heard anything from SS or the Police. I’m not really sure what to do next as there has been a safeguarding issue falsely raised against me but no follow up from anyone?

 

[scooter]

Hi Guys, The court are going to have the FHDRA on April 17th - this will be without myself and my ex. They will write to CAFCASS and ask them for a letter about safeguarding. Is there anything that I should be doing in the meantime? I have put a complaint into the Doctors Surgery about how the appointment with my daughter was handled. I have also emailed the police officer that was mentioned in the report to air some of my concerns for what my daughter is being put through. I've been very careful not to slate my ex and instead I have made it all about my daughter and the concerns I have

 

[scooter]

Afternoon All,

Today I have had confirmation of my CAFCAS phonecall appointment. I have it next Monday afternoon? I feel sick already! Any advice on the do's, dont's, and what I can do to prep for it is most welcome

 

[Ash]

Ok so it's all going as it should be. Your application has been processed, the first hearing will be a gatekeeping hearing following a cafcass report (ie cafcass and a Judge decide what next - whether it goes to a first hearing with parents or a section 7 or a fact find etc).

With Cafcass. Don't say anything negative about the ex. Do talk about your daughter, the things you used to do and your relationship. Do say Mrs Ex stopped contact when she moved in with her parents and you were then horrified to be accused of causing bruises when you've had x months of a normal happy life with your daughter. That she hasn't seen you for so long because you're first application before Christmas was incorrect and you had to resubmit. And you're worried about the effect on her of not seeing you for so long. If they ask about the bruises, say you have now read her medical records and it seems her Mother took her to the Doctors and your daughter told the Doctor you had tickled her. You are surprised at this because you don't tickle her. And tell them social services closed the case (if that's correct - I think you mentioned that above).

Meanwhile write formally to social services and request they send you a copy of the closure report.

 

[scooter]

Ok so it's all going as it should be. Your application has been processed, the first hearing will be a gatekeeping hearing following a cafcass report (ie cafcass and a Judge decide what next - whether it goes to a first hearing with parents or a section 7 or a fact find etc).

With Cafcass. Don't say anything negative about the ex. Do talk about your daughter, the things you used to do and your relationship. Do say Mrs Ex stopped contact when she moved in with her parents and you were then horrified to be accused of causing bruises when you've had x months of a normal happy life with your daughter. That she hasn't seen you for so long because you're first application before Christmas was incorrect and you had to resubmit. And you're worried about the effect on her of not seeing you for so long. If they ask about the bruises, say you have now read her medical records and it seems her Mother took her to the Doctors and your daughter told the Doctor you had tickled her. You are surprised at this because you don't tickle her. And tell them social services closed the case (if that's correct - I think you mentioned that above).

Meanwhile write formally to social services and request they send you a copy of the closure report.

Hi Ash,

Thanks for replying and the advice, mate. I did speak with the same lady from Social Services that originally called me, and I asked if I could get a closure report. She told me that I could, but it was hard for me to get the report, and reassured me that the case was closed straight away. I spoke with her a little bit, and she reassured me again that the case was closed straight away.

Should I still write to them and ask for a closure report?

 

[Ash]

Yes, do it in writing. Words on the phone mean nothing. Address it to the lady you spoke to - something like

"Following our phone conversation on x date, I very much appreciate you reassuring me know that the case was closed straight away. On consideration, however, I would appreciate a copy of the closure report being sent to me please. Thank you. Kind regards, you".

What this does then is provide evidence in writing that the case was closed because you emailed saying she told you it was and her reply to you will verify that (because she won't reply saying "I didn't say that" - her reply will mean it's accepted that she said that. Although if they did close the case straight away then they probably didn't even do a closure report and just ticked a box or something which is why she will be being vague.

If Cafcass raise this say you have spoken with social services and they assured you that the case was closed straight away - they did not consider there were any issues.

The reality is - social services are overloaded and they tend to just tell the ex to stop contact to safeguard the child - then they can close the case because there' nothing for them to do if they consider the child is being safeguarded and that then forces you to apply to court. It happens a lot and ex's say - well social services told me to stop contact. Well yes but it depends what lies she told them!

Try not to worry too much. If social services closed the case, the allegations are dismissed.

The strange bit is your daughter telling the Doctor specificially that you tickled her that day and on x day. If you didn't. Which suggests the ex has coached her and taken her to the doctor, to get some evidence against you.

A bruise at the bottom of the back would be suspicious - it's not the usual area from playing sports or falling over (eg legs or arms). It's more like an area that would show a blow or a kick.

Having said that, it could be worth contacting the GP and asking if they have done blood tests. There are some medical conditions that can cause unusual bruising as well.

 

[scooter]

Yes, do it in writing. Words on the phone mean nothing. Address it to the lady you spoke to - something like

"Following our phone conversation on x date, I very much appreciate you reassuring me know that the case was closed straight away. On consideration, however, I would appreciate a copy of the closure report being sent to me please. Thank you. Kind regards, you".

What this does then is provide evidence in writing that the case was closed because you emailed saying she told you it was and her reply to you will verify that (because she won't reply saying "I didn't say that" - her reply will mean it's accepted that she said that. Although if they did close the case straight away then they probably didn't even do a closure report and just ticked a box or something which is why she will be being vague.

If Cafcass raise this say you have spoken with social services and they assured you that the case was closed straight away - they did not consider there were any issues.

The reality is - social services are overloaded and they tend to just tell the ex to stop contact to safeguard the child - then they can close the case because there' nothing for them to do if they consider the child is being safeguarded and that then forces you to apply to court. It happens a lot and ex's say - well social services told me to stop contact. Well yes but it depends what lies she told them!

Try not to worry too much. If social services closed the case, the allegations are dismissed.

The strange bit is your daughter telling the Doctor specificially that you tickled her that day and on x day. If you didn't. Which suggests the ex has coached her and taken her to the doctor, to get some evidence against you.

A bruise at the bottom of the back would be suspicious - it's not the usual area from playing sports or falling over (eg legs or arms). It's more like an area that would show a blow or a kick.

Having said that, it could be worth contacting the GP and asking if they have done blood tests. There are some medical conditions that can cause unusual bruising as well.

Hi Ash,

I’ve done a letter to social services to ask for a closure report, so I’ll hopefully get that now.

In regards to the bruise on the lower back and the thighs. I sent a complaint to the GP surgery about how the appointment was handled and expressed my concern at what my daughter was put through. I also showed them a photo of my daughter that was taken on the previous Saturday. She was at a birthday party at the clip n climb centre. They fitted her with a harness that clipped up at the lower back and went around and under her thighs. This would explain the bruising as she’s never done this activity before. The disclaimer on the website also says by using the equipment you are prone to bumps, bruises, scrapes etc. Sadly this is something that my daughters mother would have known, but still she let her go through a full examination. Her mother also didn’t follow up the blood tests that the Dr requested. It’s pure evil it really is. My CAFCAS call is tomorrow afternoon. I’ve made all the notes and bullet points etc today. I just need to have the call now and pray that the CAFCAS lady sees through the lies that my daughters mum has been trying to spread

 

[Ash]

That sounds good. You can show that photo to Cafcass as well.

 

[Ash]

It could be worth actually making an appointment to see the GP to discuss it as well. Are you down on the records as a contact?

 

[scooter]

yeah I am down as a contact on my daughter’s records. I should hear back from the complaint tomorrow as they told me I would hear back no later than the 28th March. When I had the phone call appointment the Dr literally hung up on me. I put that in my complaint as well

 

[StayStrong]

yeah I am down as a contact on child's records. I should hear back from the complaint tomorrow as they told me I would hear back no later than the 28th March. When I had the phone call appointment the Dr literally hung up on me. I put that in my complaint as well

Edit above please scooter " my daughter", not using real name here.

Take care SS.

 

[Chi22]

Although this allegation has been made, it does not mean it happens. My ex made many allegations about me to Social Services, the children's school and the police, some of them very serious. She alleged - amongst other things that I hit and swore at the children - including a claim from social sevices that one child backed this up. It never happened but we prepped for a FF Hearing only for the ex to fold and drop all her allegations.

You're (frankly, very) unlikely to hear from the police. If they believed the claim, you would have heard from them already.

Whilst this is all very stressful, these allegations will go nowhere.